Nordic House - 729 Washington Av N

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
amiller92
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Re: 729 Washington Av N

Postby amiller92 » November 16th, 2015, 1:57 pm

Wedgeguy wrote: I'll disagree with you there, Anything over 12 stories is a stretch for that warehouse district.
Why?

I can't think of any reason I'd agree with unless it's geological/structural. The area is awash in mid-rise older buildings that will be around for a long time. Filling in with taller structures right next to the CBD makes perfect sense.

Wedgeguy
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Re: 729 Washington Av N

Postby Wedgeguy » November 16th, 2015, 3:01 pm

amiller92 wrote:
Wedgeguy wrote: I'll disagree with you there, Anything over 12 stories is a stretch for that warehouse district.
Why?

I can't think of any reason I'd agree with unless it's geological/structural. The area is awash in mid-rise older buildings that will be around for a long time. Filling in with taller structures right next to the CBD makes perfect sense.

It is called the Warehouse district, Warehouses rarely would go over 12-15 stories high in NYC due to the limitations and inefficiencies of the commercial elevators at the time most were built. Same would be true for those built in MPLS as well. To put a 20-24 story tower in the middle of the area would be completely out of place and not hold with the historic nature of the area.

You claiming that tower would be next to the CBD is not true. You can not build towers in the warehouse district of 1st-3rd avenue south of Washington due to it being a historic district. You then have a very large gap where the railroads and 394 go thru. So your gap between the towers would be very distinct and noticeable. Again we are talking about the warehouse/NL as a historic district. Why the current 729 plan had to be approved by the HPC. I'll predict that most of the rest of the fill in will be between 6 and 10 stories with the remaining vacant land in the Warehouse/NL district

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Re: 729 Washington Av N

Postby LakeCharles » November 16th, 2015, 3:11 pm

Wedgeguy wrote:
amiller92 wrote:
Wedgeguy wrote: I'll disagree with you there, Anything over 12 stories is a stretch for that warehouse district.
Why?

I can't think of any reason I'd agree with unless it's geological/structural. The area is awash in mid-rise older buildings that will be around for a long time. Filling in with taller structures right next to the CBD makes perfect sense.

It is called the Warehouse district, Warehouses rarely would go over 12-15 stories high in NYC due to the limitations and inefficiencies of the commercial elevators at the time most were built. Same would be true for those built in MPLS as well. To put a 20-24 story tower in the middle of the area would be completely out of place and not hold with the historic nature of the area.

You claiming that tower would be next to the CBD is not true. You can not build towers in the warehouse district of 1st-3rd avenue south of Washington due to it being a historic district. You then have a very large gap where the railroads and 394 go thru. So your gap between the towers would be very distinct and noticeable. Again we are talking about the warehouse/NL as a historic district. Why the current 729 plan had to be approved by the HPC. I'll predict that most of the rest of the fill in will be between 6 and 10 stories with the remaining vacant land in the Warehouse/NL district
So we're going to forever limit the height of a neighborhood because of turn-of-the-century elevator technology in NYC?

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Re: 729 Washington Av N

Postby Wedgeguy » November 16th, 2015, 3:15 pm

When it is in a historic district, yes. You have a problem with that, you take it up with the HPC!

The city currently has height restrictions in the Mill District and the warehouse district. You need to get the city to change that, good luck with that one! Also getting approval from the HPC, again good luck there. There the odds of winning an appeal would be very small, due to the nature of the district.

amiller92
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Re: 729 Washington Av N

Postby amiller92 » November 16th, 2015, 4:33 pm

Wedgeguy wrote:When it is in a historic district, yes. You have a problem with that, you take it up with the HPC!

The city currently has height restrictions in the Mill District and the warehouse district. You need to get the city to change that, good luck with that one! Also getting approval from the HPC, again good luck there. There the odds of winning an appeal would be very small, due to the nature of the district.
"Them's the rules" is a very different argument than "it should be that way."

The rules may say that, but it doesn't make it make any sense. The area is pretty filled in with buildings that protect it's historic nature. Building taller things in between them should not be a threat. We're not talking about an area with only a few remaining remnants that might get over-powered. The warehouses are everywhere.

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Re: 729 Washington Av N

Postby grant1simons2 » November 16th, 2015, 4:43 pm

Mark Reilly (a.k.a King of Bizjournal snark) also wrote about this already approved building
The group argues that the 10-story structure would put other structures in its shadow and that its size is out of place in the neighborhood, though, as the story points out and anybody who's ever been in the North Loop can attest, there are plenty of buildings of seven to nine stories.
http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/m ... se-10.html

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Re: 729 Washington Av N

Postby MNdible » November 16th, 2015, 4:54 pm

I'd fight to maintain a height limit in the North Loop, at least between Third Street and the river. There are plenty of other parts of town to have taller developments (see the action in Old Saint Anthony for example); no need to disrespect the historical scale of this very unique district.

You can still have very high density in a 7-10 story building, as most of what's there now demonstrates.

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Anondson
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Re: 729 Washington Av N

Postby Anondson » November 16th, 2015, 5:10 pm

I can see that. I'm not sure a height limit along the highway viaduct is meaningful. But 10 stories feels right still.

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Re: 729 Washington Av N

Postby Wedgeguy » November 16th, 2015, 9:13 pm

Anondson wrote:I can see that. I'm not sure a height limit along the highway viaduct is meaningful. But 10 stories feels right still.
Other than the Salvation Army site, 4th is built up already. By the Bookman Tower is restricted by height due to a covenant @ 5th. The old electrical shop is planned for 6 stories, That leaves only the open areas along 3rd as those that remain to be filled in. A 10 story limit on those spots would be fine. Remember they can always build shorter if the developer so desires. 3rd can be the taller spine of the area. Also I think there will need to be one more district parking that will have to be mixed in there with a mixed development that will probably mean taller to get the parking spaces on the lower back side (alley) and office/residential facing the street and above it. Just some food for thought.

min-chi-cbus
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Re: 729 Washington Av N

Postby min-chi-cbus » November 17th, 2015, 12:01 am

Don't we have tentative proposals within North Loop for buildings 20+ floors (the Hines blocks, in particular)?

TroyGBiv
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Re: 729 Washington Av N

Postby TroyGBiv » November 17th, 2015, 2:12 am

I think that that site is so close to downtown that they don't consider it North Loop

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Re: 729 Washington Av N

Postby RailBaronYarr » November 17th, 2015, 8:10 am

MNdible wrote:I'd fight to maintain a height limit in the North Loop, at least between Third Street and the river. There are plenty of other parts of town to have taller developments (see the action in Old Saint Anthony for example); no need to disrespect the historical scale of this very unique district.

You can still have very high density in a 7-10 story building, as most of what's there now demonstrates.
There's probably a whole discussion around each of the words 'plenty', 'disrespect', and 'unique' used in that sentence. But yes, 7-10 stories can have a very high density relative to most of the city and even directly adjacent neighborhoods, especially if setbacks (particular on upper stories) are relaxed to match the style of this district.

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Re: 729 Washington Av N

Postby Archiapolis » November 17th, 2015, 8:18 am

Wedgeguy wrote:The fastest way to settle this is for the NIMBYS to have to post a bond to cover any additional construction cost that would go up while it is taken care of in court, where I'm sure that they would not stand a chance to get their way. Especially with the city and the HPC behind the project.
+10

nordeast homer
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Re: 729 Washington Av N

Postby nordeast homer » November 17th, 2015, 4:24 pm

This is one of the projects I'm excited about. I think it blends in well with the historic buildings around it. The different colored brick helps break it up a little so it doesn't seem so long. I'm hoping this project has at least as much greenery as it shows in the images, this area is really lacking that.

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Re: 729 Washington Av N

Postby Wedgeguy » November 17th, 2015, 5:52 pm

nordeast homer wrote:This is one of the projects I'm excited about. I think it blends in well with the historic buildings around it. The different colored brick helps break it up a little so it doesn't seem so long. I'm hoping this project has at least as much greenery as it shows in the images, this area is really lacking that.
I have to agree with you on all of the point you made. The thing I like best is the hidden parking garage in the back. Nothing kills a streetscape more than a parking pedestal. The different materials, brick colors, help it look like it is two buildings instead of one monolith. Wedgeguy gives it a thumbs up. The sunlight, view stealer that it is :D It will make for a nice section of the canyon wall.

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Munch'n
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Re: 729 Washington Av N

Postby Munch'n » December 2nd, 2015, 4:10 pm

Meet me in Wells

acs
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Re: 729 Washington Av N

Postby acs » December 2nd, 2015, 4:38 pm

Thank you to whoever wrote the letter of support for this project.

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Nick
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Re: 729 Washington Av N

Postby Nick » December 7th, 2015, 7:54 pm

MNdible wrote:So, they're going to be building this right over the top of the Bassett Creek tunnel? I don't see what could possibly go wrong with that plan.
Got a memo ahead of CPC today that the land use applications for this project have been withdrawn due to the above.

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Nathan
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Re: 729 Washington Av N

Postby Nathan » December 7th, 2015, 9:45 pm

Like the building isn't structurally built to span the creek, or there aren't provisions to access the creek in the future?

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Nick
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Re: 729 Washington Av N

Postby Nick » December 7th, 2015, 10:32 pm

"Issues regarding how the new development will impact the Bassett Creek Tunnel are unresolved."


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