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Re: Downtown Office Market

Posted: May 4th, 2014, 3:16 pm
by Wedgeguy
Are these downtown towers or metro area towers? Also is this a tower or plural towers? Again what constitutes a tower? If something 8 or more then we have at least 3 office towers coming in MPLS. To me a tower is over 15 stories, but that is my bias.

Re: Downtown Office Market

Posted: May 4th, 2014, 3:37 pm
by Minneboy
Wedgeguy wrote:Best I can tell is OKC had a new tower build in 2012 but nothing more. Denver has 2 proposed, but have not broken ground that I'm aware of, office towers and one Residential proposed. Dallas, I did not see any new proposals for office. I believe that they have always had a large vacancy in their markets due to over building earlier. Like MPLS they maybe getting close to having vacancy rates that allow for building, but as of yet, I don't see much in actual construction at this time.

MPLS has 2 residential towers and 3 office building that are in construction mode at the moment downtown.
Perhaps I'm not following or you misinterpret what I mean and that those cities haven't built anything in decades so in that case your points are in agreement but just amplified.

Re: Downtown Office Market

Posted: May 5th, 2014, 8:36 am
by mattaudio
Using OKC as an example, the livability enhancements they are making to their downtown are not really due to the Devon Tower. They are creating walkable, livable neighborhoods around their downtown - but they still have a long ways to go. Yet it was interesting to see how different the attitudes are in OKC versus here with regard to the Devon Tower and the OKC Thunder. They were both palpable sources of civic pride. Probably akin to when the Lakers won championships here in the 50s, or when we got the Vikes and Twins in the early 60s, or when we built the IDS in the early 70s.

Re: Downtown Office Market

Posted: May 5th, 2014, 9:36 am
by min-chi-cbus
Wedgeguy wrote:Are these downtown towers or metro area towers? Also is this a tower or plural towers? Again what constitutes a tower? If something 8 or more then we have at least 3 office towers coming in MPLS. To me a tower is over 15 stories, but that is my bias.
Downtown, very tall (many new tallest) towers.

San Francisco, LA and Philly are getting new tallests, and I believe only Philly's is being built to suit one primary tenant (Comcast). SF's is spec (I'm almost positive) but is being rapidly pre-leased before construction has even commenced. I know less about LA's project. I'm sure most of you know about Amazon.com in Seattle as well, which is technically 3 tall office buildings, but that's really only the tip of the iceburg there as well.

Most of the major U.S. markets are building more office right now, especially (exclusively?) along the coasts. They always seem to be a step or two ahead of the rest of the marketplace anyways, but that doesn't mean I'm not jealous!

I'd provide a link to where I'm getting most of this info but since it's from a competing resource (City-Data) I'm reluctant to provide it without permission first.

Re: Downtown Office Market

Posted: May 5th, 2014, 7:34 pm
by MS3
Wedgeguy wrote:Are these downtown towers or metro area towers? Also is this a tower or plural towers? Again what constitutes a tower? If something 8 or more then we have at least 3 office towers coming in MPLS. To me a tower is over 15 stories, but that is my bias.
I read once that to be classified as a skyscraper or tower, a building had to be at least 100 meters tall. A high rise was anything over 12 stories. I wish I could remember where I read that.

Re: Downtown Office Market

Posted: May 5th, 2014, 10:15 pm
by Silophant
I believe those are the definitions Emporis uses for skyscraper and high-rise. They're as much of an authority as anyone. Tower doesn't really have an official definition (AFAIK), but implies a certain ratio of height to footprint. Like, for example Middlebrook Hall (13 floors) is probably a tower, but Marquette Plaza (13 floors) probably isn't.

Re: Downtown Office Market

Posted: May 5th, 2014, 10:36 pm
by talindsay
And I call shenanigans on DC building towers, what with the height limit and all.

Re: Downtown Office Market

Posted: May 6th, 2014, 6:28 am
by min-chi-cbus
talindsay wrote:And I call shenanigans on DC building towers, what with the height limit and all.
DC is office BUILDINGS, thanks for pointing that out.

Re: Downtown Office Market

Posted: May 6th, 2014, 3:44 pm
by Minneboy
Dang now here's a American city seeing some unprecedented growth. Austin TX. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthrea ... 910&page=5

Re: Downtown Office Market

Posted: May 7th, 2014, 3:24 pm
by mplsjaromir
Maybe an inevitable Target office space expansion won't happen.

http://gawker.com/target-headquarters-i ... 1573101642

Re: Downtown Office Market

Posted: May 7th, 2014, 3:29 pm
by Nick
I was going to post that!

Re: Downtown Office Market

Posted: May 7th, 2014, 4:05 pm
by John
I don't know. I think it's premature to say Target is on the decline due to an eccentric and dysfunctional corporate culture. I suspect all these retail chain companies have their strange quirks when you work for them. As a consumer, I guess when I enter a Target, I find the layout orderly, attractive, with some semblance the merchandise is well displayed with some attention to quality. Somebody in those cubicles at Nicollet and 11th must be thinking and doing something. I mean, have you ever been to a Walmart or CVS? They're pigsties.

Re: Downtown Office Market

Posted: May 7th, 2014, 4:59 pm
by widin007
Yeah Target is not nearly as bad as Sears is/has been. Sears is a complete disaster and its more than a reach to say that Target is going down that path because they're so "Minnesotan".

Also this http://gawker.com/i-do-not-know-one-per ... 1572478351 either these are fake or every company is some sort of hell hole.

Re: Downtown Office Market

Posted: May 7th, 2014, 5:16 pm
by FISHMANPET
I know someone who is happy at Amazon, so welp?

Re: Downtown Office Market

Posted: May 7th, 2014, 6:48 pm
by LakeCharles
Someone is disgruntled at Amazon, someone is disgruntled at Target, someone is disgruntled everywhere. I think it's a gigantic leap to say that Target won't expand because one former employee got pissy.

Re: Downtown Office Market

Posted: May 7th, 2014, 7:43 pm
by Silophant
Yeah, I think it's safe to say that, no matter what your corporate culture is, if your corporation is large enough, you have at least one employee that hates it and thinks it's going to wreck the company.

Re: Downtown Office Market

Posted: May 7th, 2014, 10:21 pm
by Nick
Being a person who is employed and who often hears people talk about their employment, I always take HamNo's anecdotey corporate America posts with a massive grain of salt. That said, I know I've heard things IRL about Target that are similar to some of the complaints in the post. Anecdotes, anecdotes, anecdotes, get your cherry-picked anecdotes over here!

Re: Downtown Office Market

Posted: May 8th, 2014, 7:07 am
by mplsjaromir
The most interesting part of the is not about the bizzare corporate culture at Target, which anyone who walks the skyways can surmise. What's interesting is that Target hasn't really had a "hit" for a while. It just seems that many of their recent ideas haven't panned out. For example the Canadian debacle, the "store within a store" concept, add in the data breach things haven't been well at the Bullseye.

I hope things turn around. I think they are positioned well and their cachet that allows for urban expansion is something that Wal-Mart does not have. I heard a statistic that at current rate of brick and motar market share erosion, online shopping will not be majority of retail sales for 75 years. Target will be around for awhile, if they have appetite for more class A office is to be seen.

Re: Downtown Office Market

Posted: May 17th, 2014, 8:52 am
by Tcmetro
This article seems to imply that RBC will be moving some jobs out to Jersey City, but it really isn't all too clear:

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/r ... ersey-city

Re: Downtown Office Market

Posted: May 27th, 2014, 4:16 pm
by MNdible
For those who keep wondering why we can't build cool stuff like they do in Manhattan:

Asking rents have been lowered at 1 World Trade Center...

...all the way from $75 to $69 per square foot, for typical large blocks of mid-tower floors.

Which is literally three times what developers around here say they need to be able to command in order to justify a new tower.