Downtown Minneapolis Office Market

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
Unity77
Landmark Center
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Joined: June 4th, 2012, 8:57 pm

Re: Current & Proposed Downtown Minneapolis Projects

Postby Unity77 » July 11th, 2014, 10:36 am

MS3 wrote:
Minneboy wrote:When was the last time we had anything hitting the 40 story mark? 1990 with Capella? Yes I realize that it's taller.
That's correct- nothing since Capella. Almost 25 years. That's an amazing drought for a city that's metro is well over 3 million. And 40 stories isn't really all that big either.
Don't expect to see another office tower of 40+ stories anytime soon.

HiawathaGuy
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Current & Proposed Downtown Minneapolis Projects

Postby HiawathaGuy » July 11th, 2014, 11:14 am

Unity77 wrote:Don't expect to see another office tower of 40+ stories anytime soon.
I love posts like this that are complete Debbie Downers... offering zero context or reasoning behind why you either believe what you're posting, or providing facts to support your position.


Markets can and do change often. As we've been discussing under the Downtown Office Market thread for a few days now.

Wedgeguy
Capella Tower
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Re: Current & Proposed Downtown Minneapolis Projects

Postby Wedgeguy » July 11th, 2014, 11:36 am

So quickly we forget!

kregger22

Re: Current & Proposed Downtown Minneapolis Projects

Postby kregger22 » July 11th, 2014, 11:46 am

No offense to Unity77, but Minneapolis is ripe for a 40+ tower for so many reasons.

min-chi-cbus
Capella Tower
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Re: Current & Proposed Downtown Minneapolis Projects

Postby min-chi-cbus » July 11th, 2014, 12:09 pm

Does the recent spate of office building sales signal anything, or is it mostly a coincidence in timing? If I had $millions and were to buy a tower I would ideally buy when:

A) building prices were at a low point and/or increasing
B) rents were at a low point and/or increasing
C) vacancies were falling and I'm able to easily attract more tenants to the space
D) I needed to increase market share or diversify my portfolio
E) all of the above


Assuming one or more of those scenarios are taking place, does it seem reasonable to assume demand for office space is on the up and up, or conversely, would it make sense to invest now if investors actually thought and felt that office vacancies would soar, prices would fall, and no new product would be built to increase avg. asking prices?

It seems that these recent sales and record prices are only good for the overall market.....I can't interpret it in any other way.

kirby96
Union Depot
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Re: Current & Proposed Downtown Minneapolis Projects

Postby kirby96 » July 11th, 2014, 2:26 pm

For every buyer there is a seller who presumably thinks the market is currently fully valued.

MNdible
is great.
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Location: Minneapolis

Re: Downtown Office Market

Postby MNdible » July 11th, 2014, 3:33 pm

When an institutional buyer purchases a big building in a good location that's mostly leased, they're buying cashflow.

It's like when you buy a bond -- you have cash sitting around that's not making any money, so you buy a bond, and every month, you earn interest from that bond. The price that these buyers are willing to pay is based very formulaicly on how much money a property generates every month, how likely it is to continue generating that same cashflow, and what your other options are for generating a similar cashflow.

mrcity

Re: Current & Proposed Downtown Minneapolis Projects

Postby mrcity » July 18th, 2014, 6:22 pm

min-chi-cbus wrote:Does the recent spate of office building sales signal anything, or is it mostly a coincidence in timing? If I had $millions and were to buy a tower I would ideally buy when:

A) building prices were at a low point and/or increasing
B) rents were at a low point and/or increasing
C) vacancies were falling and I'm able to easily attract more tenants to the space
D) I needed to increase market share or diversify my portfolio
E) all of the above


Assuming one or more of those scenarios are taking place, does it seem reasonable to assume demand for office space is on the up and up, or conversely, would it make sense to invest now if investors actually thought and felt that office vacancies would soar, prices would fall, and no new product would be built to increase avg. asking prices?

It seems that these recent sales and record prices are only good for the overall market.....I can't interpret it in any other way.
It's a great sign for a number of reasons...

1. It means large scale buyers are able to access credit needed to make big deals happen.
2. It means buyers are interested in the inventory of office buildings available here.
3. It means sellers are able to free up cash to do something new....hopefully here rather than in another market....

mullen
Foshay Tower
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Joined: June 4th, 2012, 7:02 am

Re: Downtown Office Market

Postby mullen » July 20th, 2014, 8:47 pm

some of the comments on this article are amusing. some people just can't believe minneapolis is the office hub and economic engine of this state.
http://www.startribune.com/local/minnea ... 07361.html

Silophant
Moderator
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Location: The Gateway

Re: Downtown Office Market

Postby Silophant » July 20th, 2014, 9:45 pm

Just like the commenters on Green Line articles that insist that all the trains are almost empty. Not sure why they bother to read the Strib if they're convinced that it makes all it's stories up out of whole cloth.

Unity77
Landmark Center
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Joined: June 4th, 2012, 8:57 pm

Re: Current & Proposed Downtown Minneapolis Projects

Postby Unity77 » July 20th, 2014, 10:13 pm

HiawathaGuy wrote:
Unity77 wrote:Don't expect to see another office tower of 40+ stories anytime soon.
I love posts like this that are complete Debbie Downers... offering zero context or reasoning behind why you either believe what you're posting, or providing facts to support your position.


Markets can and do change often. As we've been discussing under the Downtown Office Market thread for a few days now.
There would need to be a sizable company committed to a 40+ story tower and TC-based companies don't seem to be interested. Of the office towers proposed since the mid-2000s, none have been able to land a major tenant.

Now why don't you offer some reasoning or facts that make you think Minneapolis is going to see a 40+ story tower soon.
kregger22 wrote:No offense to Unity77, but Minneapolis is ripe for a 40+ tower for so many reasons.
None taken. I would love to see a new tower in Minneapolis too, but again, I'm not convinced it's going to happen anytime soon.

uptown067
Metrodome
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Joined: June 9th, 2012, 9:37 am

Re: Downtown Office Market

Postby uptown067 » July 24th, 2014, 10:02 pm


Silophant
Moderator
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Location: The Gateway

Re: Downtown Office Market

Postby Silophant » July 24th, 2014, 11:25 pm

Great! Maybe those new tower rumors aren't as unlikely as some would think.

min-chi-cbus
Capella Tower
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Joined: June 1st, 2012, 9:19 am

Re: Downtown Office Market

Postby min-chi-cbus » July 25th, 2014, 8:12 am

How much doubt is there with the rumors out there? What's the concensus? I believe the rumors to be 100% true, and perhaps 75% likely, but that depends on what sounds like a high number of variable and moving parts that even the rumor mill people can't truly control. Otherwise I have very little doubt much of any of the rumors are made up whatsoever.

EOst
Capella Tower
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Re: Downtown Office Market

Postby EOst » July 25th, 2014, 9:18 am

I don't know that we really have the tools to determine which rumors are true or not at this stage; most are so vague (and so contingent) that it'd be hard to tell if they came true even if they did. Generally I'd reckon that the more specific the rumor, the more likely it is.

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Avian
Union Depot
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Re: Downtown Office Market

Postby Avian » July 25th, 2014, 9:47 am

I hope no one thinks that the rumors are completely made up. The stuff I hear (at least) comes from people in the business who work at various levels in the development or design of projects. I've also seen renderings and I have created renderings myself for clients (most recently studies of new lighting schemes for two existing downtown buildings). Many things change and some things never happen. But I would hope it is still interesting for people to hear that there is a lot of movement on projects behind the scenes. And, as has been pointed out many times, just because we hear of projects in the pipeline doesn't mean that an "official announcement" is imminent. Sometimes large projects can take years to come together. It's very complicated. A bankruptcy in Bavaria could stall a project in Bloomington. ;)

“Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something.”
― Plato

MinnMonkey
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 156
Joined: July 6th, 2012, 11:31 am

Re: Downtown Office Market

Postby MinnMonkey » July 25th, 2014, 11:46 am

Avian wrote:(most recently studies of new lighting schemes for two existing downtown buildings).
33 South 6th perhaps?

Wedgeguy
Capella Tower
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Re: Downtown Office Market

Postby Wedgeguy » July 25th, 2014, 1:08 pm

MinnMonkey wrote:
Avian wrote:(most recently studies of new lighting schemes for two existing downtown buildings).
33 South 6th perhaps?
That one will need more than a lighting scheme to make it look pretty. A whole new exterior is what it needs.

David Greene
IDS Center
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Joined: December 4th, 2012, 11:41 am

Re: Downtown Office Market

Postby David Greene » July 25th, 2014, 1:11 pm

Wedgeguy wrote:That one will need more than a lighting scheme to make it look pretty. A whole new exterior is what it needs.
And 13th floor, too.

grant1simons2
IDS Center
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Re: Downtown Office Market

Postby grant1simons2 » July 25th, 2014, 1:31 pm

I think they hired a child to design that building. Hate seeing it during the twins games


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