Portland Tower - 516 S. 8th St.

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
min-chi-cbus
Capella Tower
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Re: Portland Tower - 516 S. 8th St.

Postby min-chi-cbus » February 10th, 2015, 8:47 am

That's very cool that he's so willing to work with the neighborhood to make his project a win for everybody.

AccordGuy
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Re: Portland Tower - 516 S. 8th St.

Postby AccordGuy » February 10th, 2015, 8:57 am

Yay !!! More life for this area, and the design tweak looks great.
Born in Minneapolis.

NE_love
City Center
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Re: Portland Tower - 516 S. 8th St.

Postby NE_love » February 10th, 2015, 1:12 pm

I like the horizontal look better than this. It creates more movement in that large of a plane and I feel it relates better to the brick above. I am not really a fan of the colors they had shown, but I like something other than grey.

Mcgizz
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Portland Tower - 516 S. 8th St.

Postby Mcgizz » February 10th, 2015, 10:58 pm

I agree that the color the selected in this new rendering makes this tower a little monotonous. It seems they were at two ends of the spectrum here. With the horizontal cladding they had something that seemed out of place but with the new gray material it seems a little boring. Overall, the new rendering is better than the previous ones.

Additionally, if this project gets approved it could really help other developers know what the market for condos are in the downtown area.

twincitizen
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Re: Portland Tower - 516 S. 8th St.

Postby twincitizen » February 11th, 2015, 1:23 am

This project was approved in November and is now underway.

AccordGuy
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Re: Portland Tower - 516 S. 8th St.

Postby AccordGuy » February 11th, 2015, 8:50 am

Mcgizz wrote:I agree that the color the selected in this new rendering makes this tower a little monotonous. It seems they were at two ends of the spectrum here. With the horizontal cladding they had something that seemed out of place but with the new gray material it seems a little boring. Overall, the new rendering is better than the previous ones.

Additionally, if this project gets approved it could really help other developers know what the market for condos are in the downtown area.
It would be great if we had more condos in the lower end of the price range for downtown office workers who can't afford $250,000 and up.
This looks like a great addition to the area.
Born in Minneapolis.

Mcgizz
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Portland Tower - 516 S. 8th St.

Postby Mcgizz » February 11th, 2015, 11:14 am

twincitizen wrote:This project was approved in November and is now underway.

My bad. :oops:

Mcgizz
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Portland Tower - 516 S. 8th St.

Postby Mcgizz » February 11th, 2015, 11:19 am

AccordGuy wrote:
Mcgizz wrote:I agree that the color the selected in this new rendering makes this tower a little monotonous. It seems they were at two ends of the spectrum here. With the horizontal cladding they had something that seemed out of place but with the new gray material it seems a little boring. Overall, the new rendering is better than the previous ones.

Additionally, if this project gets approved it could really help other developers know what the market for condos are in the downtown area.
It would be great if we had more condos in the lower end of the price range for downtown office workers who can't afford $250,000 and up.
This looks like a great addition to the area.
Is it economically viable for condos to be built that are cheaper than $250,000 in downtown? I assume (and perhaps wrongly) that the initial barrier of taxes, land value and upfront construction costs make it more difficult for such a project to be economically viable.

twincitizen
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Re: Portland Tower - 516 S. 8th St.

Postby twincitizen » February 11th, 2015, 11:52 am

A while back, I posted some links in the "Apartment Boom" topic (found under Anything Goes) that you might find interesting: https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f=6&t ... ndo#p37346

The MinnPost article is really informative with regards to the cost of construction, etc.

That said, Stanton (Portland Tower developer) seems to be somewhat operating on his own terms. It seems he self-finances (can anyone confirm that?), which would obviously cut some costs. It's also possible that he is comfortable with lower rates of return than other developers/financiers. But as for "affordable condos" being built, no, I don't see how that could possibly work. For brand new units, $250,000, or the stated $330/sf (if not higher) is probably the absolute price floor.

go4guy
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Re: Portland Tower - 516 S. 8th St.

Postby go4guy » February 11th, 2015, 12:06 pm

Dont mean to continue off topic, but is there any indication that lower fuel costs will drive down construction costs? Fuel is such a large part of everything that goes into construction. Just curious if it will actually impact costs at all, if anyone has experience in that field.

tab
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Re: Portland Tower - 516 S. 8th St.

Postby tab » February 11th, 2015, 12:45 pm

Heard at recent conference from engineer/consultant: "...many people might extrapolate that lower fuel costs would lead to reduced construction costs, but we're not seeing it. Contractors are busy, and labor shortages are driving costs up, along with general inflation."

Tyler
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Re: Portland Tower - 516 S. 8th St.

Postby Tyler » February 11th, 2015, 12:56 pm

twincitizen wrote:A while back, I posted some links in the "Apartment Boom" topic (found under Anything Goes) that you might find interesting: https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f=6&t ... ndo#p37346

The MinnPost article is really informative with regards to the cost of construction, etc.

That said, Stanton (Portland Tower developer) seems to be somewhat operating on his own terms. It seems he self-finances (can anyone confirm that?), which would obviously cut some costs. It's also possible that he is comfortable with lower rates of return than other developers/financiers. But as for "affordable condos" being built, no, I don't see how that could possibly work. For brand new units, $250,000, or the stated $330/sf (if not higher) is probably the absolute price floor.
Ehh. Stanton has sold a ton of units in the $250/sq ft range. He could easily do smaller units under $250K. But he has found a formula which works so he keeps hammering it. We'll see how much the formula is tweaked here given its inferior location.
Towns!

xandrex
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Re: Portland Tower - 516 S. 8th St.

Postby xandrex » February 11th, 2015, 1:06 pm

I think in the periphery you could get under $250,000 quite easily. A while back I was searching for condos just for fun (as if I can afford real estate), and there were a number of updated units under $200,000. I have to imagine a location right by the hospital and an area of town that's still not quite there in terms of "hipness" could drive prices down (even if they're not under $250K).

mattaudio
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Re: Portland Tower - 516 S. 8th St.

Postby mattaudio » February 11th, 2015, 1:09 pm

There were plenty of condos in the Sexton for well under $100k after the bust. If only their association wasn't in such legal and financial shambles, I was tempted to pick up a unit as an investment.

twincitizen
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Re: Portland Tower - 516 S. 8th St.

Postby twincitizen » February 11th, 2015, 1:46 pm

Kind of irrelevant to new construction though, right?

Sherman straight up said he would not build for under $335/sf, if not higher. I'd put him in the same class as Stanton, with the possible ability to self-finance (again, not sure on this), take a lower margin, experience of having done it before, etc. Saying it could be done for less kinda seems like wishful thinking, unless you're asking for tiny studio units.

750 sf * $300/sf = $225,000 = wishful thinking
750 sf * $333/sf = $250,000

FYI: Portland Tower's FB page says "mid-300s to $1MM +"

Tyler
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Re: Portland Tower - 516 S. 8th St.

Postby Tyler » February 11th, 2015, 1:56 pm

Sherman is not self financing his projects. 100% sure he did not self finance Zenith, at least. They have very different building philosophy's anyways. And I'm not saying it could be done for less. I'm saying Stanton already has been doing it for less. The floor isn't the floor if it isn't the floor. Ya dig?
Towns!

Tyler
Foshay Tower
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Re: Portland Tower - 516 S. 8th St.

Postby Tyler » February 11th, 2015, 2:32 pm

I'd also like to point out that when price per square ft is discussed usually it's referencing the average in the building. A building with an average of $300/sf will have a bunch of units more affordable than that.
Towns!

nickmgray
Union Depot
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Re: Portland Tower - 516 S. 8th St.

Postby nickmgray » February 12th, 2015, 8:17 am

I think an affordable condos in downtown are possible, but the building would have to sacrifice a lot of amenities and the finished in the units would need to be cheap. While someone who makes $50- $70k per year on their own would like to live downtown, I don't think many of them would choose a condo with cheap finishes.

mattaudio
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Re: Portland Tower - 516 S. 8th St.

Postby mattaudio » February 12th, 2015, 8:58 am

A condo with cheap finishes screams equitybuilding opportunity.

min-chi-cbus
Capella Tower
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Re: Portland Tower - 516 S. 8th St.

Postby min-chi-cbus » February 12th, 2015, 9:18 am

xandrex wrote:I think in the periphery you could get under $250,000 quite easily. A while back I was searching for condos just for fun (as if I can afford real estate), and there were a number of updated units under $200,000. I have to imagine a location right by the hospital and an area of town that's still not quite there in terms of "hipness" could drive prices down (even if they're not under $250K).
My buddy and his father bought a 1st floor condo at one of the twin residential towers in Loring Park close to I-94, and he basically has a private backyard, since his sliding glass door opens up to the yard and nobody else seems to use it. So he like the best of both worlds (suburban ideology, urban setting), and he got it for ~$100K. It's only 1 BR/1 BA though.


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