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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Posted: May 16th, 2016, 7:01 am
by Archiapolis
Center platform with a tunnel through beneath for pedestrians would have been a great "compromise" (read: not cheap) but instead we got the cheapest "bridge to nowhere" that money could buy. Gross.

Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Posted: May 16th, 2016, 7:31 am
by Silophant
I think, at this point, having to bustitute both lines for probably three months or more is probably a bigger obstacle to undergrounding the station than the money is. Of course, that will only get worse once the extensions are up and running. So... I'm not sure what can be done, other than going back to 2000 and anteing up the money to underground the line from the start.

Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Posted: May 16th, 2016, 10:14 am
by helsinki
[Probably belongs in transportation]

If putting the downtown spine underground was a serious option in the future, it would probably make more sense to build temporary tracks & stations on 4th street than to shut down the downtown rail network for months on end. Once all 4 lines are up and running, well over 100,000 people are going to using the system every day - most transit agencies (the clueless WMATA excluded) would have proper contingency plans.

Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Posted: May 16th, 2016, 10:54 am
by Silophant
Yeah, I was just speaking of the possibility of undergrounding only the stadium station. I imagine if we undergrounded the whole downtown section, it would get moved to 6th or 4th St, so it would only require interrupting service for long enough to tie the new tracks into the old.

Re: Stadium LRT Station, Ped Bridge & Plaza (MSFA block)

Posted: May 17th, 2016, 10:13 am
by mattaudio
If anything, the massive excavation of the Vikings stadium (and the massive excavation of the Target Field area a decade ago) would have been a major opportunity to grade and preserve transit portals at each end of downtown for a future underground tunnel. I would have picked 6th St, since it's closer to the core but could be built without significant interruption of the current 5th St at-grade alignment. It would have been a massive coordination effort, and a rather large expense... but it would have been a huge cost savings for down the road when we finally decide we need grade separation to handle 100,000+ people a day on a LRT spine across downtown.

Re: Stadium LRT Station, Ped Bridge & Plaza (MSFA block)

Posted: May 17th, 2016, 6:49 pm
by VikingFaninMaryland
mattaudio wrote:If anything, the massive excavation of the Vikings stadium (and the massive excavation of the Target Field area a decade ago) would have been a major opportunity to grade and preserve transit portals at each end of downtown for a future underground tunnel. I would have picked 6th St, since it's closer to the core but could be built without significant interruption of the current 5th St at-grade alignment. It would have been a massive coordination effort, and a rather large expense... but it would have been a huge cost savings for down the road when we finally decide we need grade separation to handle 100,000+ people a day on a LRT spine across downtown.
As Minneapolis has narrower streets in the downtown core than typical downtowns for larger cities and is already stressed, it surprises me that they didn't decide to but the LRT below grade in the downtown area from the beginning.

Re: Stadium LRT Station, Ped Bridge & Plaza (MSFA block)

Posted: May 17th, 2016, 8:56 pm
by contrast
A: $$$$

Re: Stadium LRT Station, Ped Bridge & Plaza (MSFA block)

Posted: May 17th, 2016, 9:18 pm
by VikingFaninMaryland
contrast wrote:A: $$$$
I get that but I also think that if the LRT is as successful as it is (reasonably) projected to be, on top of expanding the office and residential stock, at some point that point will have to be reconsidered at increasing costs.

Re: Stadium LRT Station, Ped Bridge & Plaza (MSFA block)

Posted: May 17th, 2016, 9:41 pm
by Silophant
No doubt about that. I think the severity of the issue is kinda hidden right now, since downtown is the end of the line, so it's the beginning or end of every trip it affects. Once the extensions are running and people are taking it through downtown and getting slowed down in the middle of the trip, there'll start to be more agitation to fix it.

Re: Stadium LRT Station, Ped Bridge & Plaza (MSFA block)

Posted: May 17th, 2016, 9:48 pm
by karlshea
Well the way it's looking, the state isn't going to pass the SWLRT funding and then we don't get funded from the feds. Hopefully the situation changes in the next couple of days but the end of the session is coming and the R speaker specifically said he wants to kill the project.

Re: Stadium LRT Station, Ped Bridge & Plaza (MSFA block)

Posted: May 18th, 2016, 7:14 am
by Qhaberl
I wish our state dis more of their projects bt the ballot. Let the resedents of the counties and communities affected by the rail make the desision about weather its get funded.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Stadium LRT Station, Ped Bridge & Plaza (MSFA block)

Posted: May 18th, 2016, 7:43 am
by twincitizen
Let's please try to keep discussion about SWLRT and transportation funding (general) in their proper threads. It's barely relevant to the topic at hand here, since the (possibly unnecessary) pedestrian bridge is already getting built.

Re: Stadium LRT Station, Ped Bridge & Plaza (MSFA block)

Posted: May 19th, 2016, 9:32 am
by mattaudio
This seems like more of a "plaza" discussion than a stadium discussion:

Have the Vikings fumbled their chance for quality public art at the new stadium?
https://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2016 ... ew-stadium

Re: Stadium LRT Station, Ped Bridge & Plaza (MSFA block)

Posted: May 19th, 2016, 1:58 pm
by Nathan
I do think that the plaza is lacking, though I do like the horn. They have spoken about and included a ton of local and national art inside as well, as published. I think people are just spiteful of the whole situation and milking it for what they can.

Re: Stadium LRT Station, Ped Bridge & Plaza (MSFA block)

Posted: May 20th, 2016, 7:30 pm
by bapster2006
So no one has really posted a photo of the bridge yet? Sweet. Here you go you out-of-towners.

ImageUS Bank Stadium pedestrian bridge 5-20-16 by Matt Bappe, on Flickr

Re: Stadium LRT Station, Ped Bridge & Plaza (MSFA block)

Posted: May 20th, 2016, 7:45 pm
by alleycat
Another perspective. A week back.

Image

Image

Re: Stadium LRT Station, Ped Bridge & Plaza (MSFA block)

Posted: May 20th, 2016, 10:38 pm
by VikingFaninMaryland
bapster2006 wrote:So no one has really posted a photo of the bridge yet? Sweet. Here you go you out-of-towners.

ImageUS Bank Stadium pedestrian bridge 5-20-16 by Matt Bappe, on Flickr
Great pics! I notice large white styrofoam blocks (I know there is a more appropriate construction term for the construction grade foam). This suggests that they may use the space around the bridge, on top of the parking ramp, on that side of the tracks to fashion a green space to transition from the park to the MedTronic Plaza in front of the stadium. Anyone have any details on that?

Not in this picture, on the other side of the tracks, they are pouring what appears to be a concrete pedestrian open space. As part of this, moving closer to the M.E.s office, they dug down, laid a foundation and then placed what looks to be precast concrete forms that will rest immediately below grade. They appear to serve some infrastructural purpose. Anyone have any ideas on what that might be.

Re: Stadium LRT Station, Ped Bridge & Plaza (MSFA block)

Posted: May 21st, 2016, 6:37 am
by schmitzm03
There are some specs related to tge plaza on the msfa rfp website. My (non-expert) reading of them is that there will be a raised concrete plaza on top of the underground ramp with stairs down to the street.

Not so sure about the precast concrete forms on the other side of the lrt platform. Could they be for drainage? I think that area will also be for tailgating.

Re: Stadium LRT Station, Ped Bridge & Plaza (MSFA block)

Posted: May 21st, 2016, 12:11 pm
by kiliff75
Will the bridge allow for walking from one side of the tracks to the other, or just from that side of the tracks (westbound/northbound) across Chicago Ave? My impression is no, but I'm not sure if I'm missing something...

Re: Stadium LRT Station, Ped Bridge & Plaza (MSFA block)

Posted: May 24th, 2016, 10:12 am
by HiawathaGuy
kiliff75 wrote:Will the bridge allow for walking from one side of the tracks to the other, or just from that side of the tracks (westbound/northbound) across Chicago Ave? My impression is no, but I'm not sure if I'm missing something...
You're not missing anything. This bridge really is to prevent the hordes of people going to/from US Bank Stadium from needing to cross the tracks. So this is not about platform circulation/connectivity, but rather a safety play - for when the Green and Blue Line trains continue on to the SW & NW from downtown. As the bridge won't be excessively used by rail riding venue goers until that time.