Stadium LRT Station, Ped Bridge & Plaza (MSFA block)

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Nathan
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Re: Downtown East / Vikings Stadium LRT Station

Postby Nathan » August 28th, 2014, 2:27 pm

twincitizen wrote:
Nathan wrote:right... this is a concept being shown for the request for proposal... but take it at face value if you want or advocate for it to be better. whatever you think is more valuable.
Sorry Nathan, you're wrong. Matt is correct in that there is no plan at all for adding a center platform. It would require additional street easements for the split tracks, as well as tearing up the existing platforms and tracks in that area, all of which are way below their life expectancy. I've been told that fact alone is a huge driver for the missing center platform...it would require destroying a lot of perfectly good infrastructure that is only 10 years old, all of which cost probably as much as this bridge and then some.

I really believe this ped bridge project should be tabled, and see how an NFL season goes with real world operations. I don't know if anyone noticed, but football is generally played the opposite of construction season. It really seems this bridge could be built during a single offseason. Let's maybe wait and see if it's actually necessary.

The good news is that no specific money has been identified for this project yet. Metro Transit would have to budget for it and there would probably be some type of (extremely poorly publicized) Met Council committee meeting. It's not a great deal of money in the grand scheme of things, but it's enough that I think it would probably be discussed by Met Council's Transportation Committee. If you feel strongly enough about it, you can contact Brian Lamb, General Manager of Metro Transit, or better yet, your Met Council representative.
Well you're wrong that I was suggesting a center platform I was merely suggesting a third staircase that comes down on the south side of the station, not that hard.

*just like a majority of subway stations in NYC just open air.

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Re: Downtown East / Vikings Stadium LRT Station

Postby IllogicalJake » August 28th, 2014, 3:13 pm

twincitizen wrote:
Nathan wrote:right... this is a concept being shown for the request for proposal... but take it at face value if you want or advocate for it to be better. whatever you think is more valuable.
Sorry Nathan, you're wrong. Matt is correct in that there is no plan at all for adding a center platform. It would require additional street easements for the split tracks, as well as tearing up the existing platforms and tracks in that area, all of which are way below their life expectancy. I've been told that fact alone is a huge driver for the missing center platform...it would require destroying a lot of perfectly good infrastructure that is only 10 years old, all of which cost probably as much as this bridge and then some.
I don't know - if they built a second Target Field Station just a little down the line to handle more people, it doesn't seem unreasonable that a new center platformed station could be proposed just past the current DTE station. Plenty of room to build it to the side of the current tracks. A center platform isn't a mindless request - the people crossing to transfer to the Blue Line were a real problem during TCF Bank games so far.
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Re: Downtown East / Vikings Stadium LRT Station

Postby FISHMANPET » August 28th, 2014, 3:25 pm

We've got our own Grand Central Terminal, now we need our own Penn Station!

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Nathan
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Re: Downtown East / Vikings Stadium LRT Station

Postby Nathan » August 28th, 2014, 3:41 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:We've got our own Grand Central Terminal, now we need our own Penn Station!
QFT

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Re: Minnesota Multi Purpose Stadium

Postby Rich » April 15th, 2015, 7:18 am


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jw138
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Re: Minnesota Multi Purpose Stadium

Postby jw138 » April 15th, 2015, 7:46 am

Rich wrote:Pedestrian bridge update:

http://finance-commerce.com/2015/04/dea ... an-bridge/
Are there other renderings? That rendering makes it look like passengers will have to walk westbound a ways from the platform before gaining access to the stairs. At that point some may choose to cross the street for quicker access to the stadium. I hope there's a 90 degree jog to the south so that the bottom of the stairs ends right at the platform.

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Re: Downtown East / Vikings Stadium LRT Station

Postby twincitizen » April 15th, 2015, 8:13 am

I just fired off an email to Jim Harwood, project manager, regarding our earlier discussion/concerns if the bridge was being designed long enough to allow for a future center island platform, which is so obviously needed here. A center island platform would widen the space between the tracks, meaning that the bridge support columns would have to be set far enough apart to allow for that extra space.

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Re: Downtown East / Vikings Stadium LRT Station

Postby mamundsen » April 15th, 2015, 8:17 am

Plus this from the article:

"The Minnesota Vikings and the Minnesota Sports Facilities Authority will contribute a combined $300,000 annually in promotional revenue in exchange for naming rights and other restrictions on advertising on the platform."

So I assume we will soon see the Downtown East Station renamed as ______ Stadium Station. Similar to Target Field Station.

Was it ever discussed to rebuild the whole station? $6 mil for a bridge that will be ignored most of the time seems steep!!!

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Re: Downtown East / Vikings Stadium LRT Station

Postby seanrichardryan » April 15th, 2015, 8:26 am

Stop thinking of it as a bridge and think of it more as a revenue chute.
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Re: Downtown East / Vikings Stadium LRT Station

Postby grant1simons2 » April 15th, 2015, 8:36 am

What if it elevated over 4th St and chutes down to one side of the street and one to another? Similar to Lake St station. Expensive option but would be awesome in the long run..

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Re: Downtown East / Vikings Stadium LRT Station

Postby twincitizen » April 15th, 2015, 8:49 am

Welp, I didn't get a clear answer because he thought I was asking about having a center platform instead of the existing side platforms. I tried to make it clear that I meant a center platform would be in addition to the existing side platforms. Metro Transit would not support a center platform instead of the existing side platforms because it would require large crowds to cross the tracks, which is the exact problem the ped bridge is trying to solve.

Awaiting a better answer to find out if the bridge is actually future proof. We cannot allow this bridge to be built if the columns aren't placed far enough apart to allow for expansion.

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Re: Downtown East / Vikings Stadium LRT Station

Postby mattaudio » April 15th, 2015, 9:47 am

We cannot allow this bridge to be built [stop]

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Downtown East / Vikings Stadium LRT Station

Postby FISHMANPET » April 15th, 2015, 10:02 am

Oh snap I forgot we had a thread about this. A few thoughts, as perhaps the poster that uses this station the most (unless anybody else is transferring between trains twice a day here).

Right now, if everything goes according to schedule, you've got 5 minutes to transfer trains (Green East comes 5 minutes after Blue North, Blue South comes 5 minutes after Green West, etc). And things have shaped up even since I've started riding regularly 5 months ago, to where I can very casually make the way from wherever I am on the platform to the end of the platform to cross the tracks to get back to wherever I want to be on the platform. And the platorm is short enough that right now, if I had the option of walking to the center of the platform, for example, walking up a set of stairs, and walking down again, based on how high that would have to be to clear the catenary, I probably would still do what I do now and walk to the end of the platform.

Regardless there should be a center island here. I see 5 or 10 or more people transferring every time I do, and those numbers are only going to grow as Hiawatha and University Ave grow. I think that might help a lot with distributing passengers around the platform, it seems like they bunch up on the side of the platform going out of downtown (N-NE I guess). Looking at the plans for future lines, there wouldn't be any great jumps in transfers at this station. Right now I believe the only transfer growth that requires switching directions would be Southwest eastbound to Bottineau northbound or Bottineau southbound to Southwest westbound (southwest bound?). But when we get those new lines I think there will be additional "instability" in the schedule such that we might have to switch to headway scheduling during peak times or something, and you may not always have that guaranteed 5 minutes to switch platforms. I combination of center island platform, and drivers hanging back a few seconds when they meet a train would make that transfer much easier.

Even though I think there should be a center island, I'm not so sure it should even be used on game days. It might be easier on everything boarding all the trains at that time to be forced onto one of the side platforms where there can be much more room for queueing. Which brings me to the bridge. I'm fine with the idea of a bridge. It wouldn't be useful for platform transfers, but I don't think that's the intention so it's fine. It looks to be big enough to accommodate the crowds, the slope of the stairs is pretty shallow so it won't be a terrible climb, and it generally doesn't look like a freeway overpass pedestrian bridge. But it's not really needed now, there won't be that many people going West from here so there won't be that many people actually crossing the tracks. So maybe wait until we actually need it. Maybe when Southwest and Bottineau get running we'll see the need for total grade separation downtown and this pedestrian bridge (at least in its proposed form) won't make any sense.

If we have to build this bridge, give some dreamers at Metro Transit a chance to weigh in. Imagine all sorts of future scenarios, including a center island or some kind of grade separation, and see if the bridge can easily be made to accommodate those future possibilities.

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Re: Downtown East / Vikings Stadium LRT Station

Postby BoredAgain » April 15th, 2015, 1:58 pm

Am I the only one who thinks this is a problem because of a missed larger opportunity?

The north half of this block is a large empty concrete slab that tops the underground parking ramp. I don't remember who owns the thing anymore, but the city/vikings/MSFA/Park Board/met council/someone should build an amenity on top of that empty slab. This large and mostly useless bridge could connect to a second level deck with an incredible view and then continue across Park Avenue before descending into the new "commons".

I hope that they close Portland, but I doubt that they will close Park. This could connect the "commons" to the lightrail and the vikings stadium. Make it wide enough to accomodate the vikings crowds. Have a large seating area the rest of the time. Make the ground level into the Downtown East "interchange" building. This way USBank (or whoever) will feel just as special as Target.

I can't be the only one to have considered this. Why is no one talking about it?

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Re: Downtown East / Vikings Stadium LRT Station

Postby mattaudio » April 15th, 2015, 2:35 pm

I've thought the same thing. If there's a natural place for there to be an amenity, it's on top of pilings that exist for a building. That's the only way I can see building a ped bridge over Chicago.

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Re: Downtown East / Vikings Stadium LRT Station

Postby Rich » April 15th, 2015, 3:02 pm

The F&C article says that the MSFA will spend an extra $2 million on plaza improvements. My guess is that the money will be used to turn the top of the parking ramp into a mostly empty gathering space. They estimate 26,000 fans will take transit to the games. And I think the MSFA just wants to be sure there’s nothing obstructing the throngs when they come pouring out of the stadium and across Chicago Avenue.

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Re: Downtown East / Vikings Stadium LRT Station

Postby twincitizen » April 15th, 2015, 3:38 pm

I just sent an email to CMs Frey and Goodman with my concerns over the rush job on this bridge, lack of public process, making it "future proof", etc.

I know it's a Met Council project and essentially connects two pieces of MSFA-owned land, but the city would at least have to sign off on it, no? It does pass over a city street (Chicago), does it not?

The whole issue is limited to Frey's ward, but Ward 7 is just on the other side of Portland and Lisa Goodman has lots of influence anyways, so I figured it was worth looping her in. I just discovered that "The Commons" is actually split by the two council wards. The western block is in Ward 7 and the eastern block is in Ward 3. Though neither block has any population (yet, anyways), they obviously were not considering this future split when they drew the ward boundaries in early 2012.

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Nick
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Re: Downtown East / Vikings Stadium LRT Station

Postby Nick » April 15th, 2015, 3:57 pm

How does this bridge cost $6,000,000.00?

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grant1simons2
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Re: Downtown East / Vikings Stadium LRT Station

Postby grant1simons2 » April 15th, 2015, 3:59 pm

But actually, where the hell were the meetings for this?

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Re: Downtown East / Vikings Stadium LRT Station

Postby mplsjaromir » April 15th, 2015, 3:59 pm

Civil Racketeering??


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