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Stadium LRT Station, Ped Bridge & Plaza (MSFA block)

Posted: August 23rd, 2014, 11:43 pm
by MSPtoMKE
Here is a presentation about a pedestrian bridge proposed to be added the Downtown East light rail station:

http://metrocouncil.org/Council-Meeting ... adium.aspx

I am fine with this, assuming they don't go the Bloomington route and close off an at-grade pedestrian crossing. I would imagine they will consider restricting crossing the tracks at grade during events, though. They do point out they plan to run some extra service during games, meaning a train passing every 2 minutes vs. every 5 minutes during the previous Vikings Season.

Re: Minnesota Multi Purpose Stadium

Posted: August 24th, 2014, 10:10 am
by Tcmetro
I think that this is a very good idea, short of elevating the train station.

Re: Minnesota Multi Purpose Stadium

Posted: August 24th, 2014, 11:44 am
by EOst
How are they going to manage 2-minute frequency at DTE without signal preemption? I was on a Green Line train at DTE today that was stuck there for about 5 minutes because of other trains and then missing the signal, and that's a quiet Sunday afternoon.

Re: Minnesota Multi Purpose Stadium

Posted: August 24th, 2014, 12:49 pm
by Tom H.
Isn't Chicago usually closed off on Gamedays? That should allow for faster light cycles.

Re: Minnesota Multi Purpose Stadium

Posted: August 24th, 2014, 12:52 pm
by MSPtoMKE
Well, it isn't really a huge increase in trains. Right now, even on a quiet Sunday afternoon, there are 24 trains passing through the intersection of 4th and Chicago per hour. This shows planning for 30 trains per hour. It is the difference between a train every 2.5 minutes and every 2 minutes. I think the main concern is a flood of pedestrians exiting the stadium and trying to cross the tracks to get to the platform or continue towards downtown. Not that they shouldn't work on reducing delays through Downtown Minneapolis...

Re: Minnesota Multi Purpose Stadium

Posted: August 25th, 2014, 9:00 am
by mister.shoes
*commences beating of dead horse*

Step 1) Flip-flop 4th and the LRT so trains/cars never have to stop for each other at that intersection (assumes Chicago is closed on game/event days).
Step 2) Add a second LRT platform (center island style, please!) on the north side of the new stadium, making the entire area between platform and stadium pedestrian-only with trees (for attractiveness) and queuing space (for people).
Step 3) There is no step 3!

*horse sufficiently beaten*

Re: Minnesota Multi Purpose Stadium

Posted: August 25th, 2014, 8:50 pm
by Orbi
How about leaving the LRT in place and moving 4th to the other side of it using the parking lots and connect it 3rd st as it goes under the LRT tracks? The parking lots are owned by the Wilfs so I guess they would have to be on board - maybe could have negotiated some like this in the beginning.

Re: Minnesota Multi Purpose Stadium

Posted: August 26th, 2014, 8:37 am
by HiawathaGuy
More information in the press:
Pedestrian bridge planned from station to Vikings stadium
http://finance-commerce.com/2014/08/ped ... z3BVZhBBL5

The RFP will include design, so this is just a preliminary rendering - the final project may look different:
Image

Re: Minnesota Multi Purpose Stadium

Posted: August 26th, 2014, 8:46 am
by mattaudio
In addition to the skyway across 4th Street to the Downtown East Ramp Vertical Circulation Tower? Yikes!

Edit: Seems like this wouldn't be necessary until SWLRT opens - right now most people leaving a game would head to the near-side tracks to go east on Blue or Green. Even after SWLRT/Bottineau open, why not just use the expensive skyways to the DTE ramp vertical circulation, and improve a stairway down towards the north station platform area?

Downtown East / Vikings Stadium LRT Station

Posted: August 26th, 2014, 9:01 am
by LRV Op Dude
Here is a link to presentation to the Transportation Committee about the Downtown East/Vikings Stadium Transit Planning.

Re: Minnesota Multi Purpose Stadium

Posted: August 26th, 2014, 9:27 am
by IllogicalJake
mattaudio wrote:In addition to the skyway across 4th Street to the Downtown East Ramp Vertical Circulation Tower? Yikes!

Edit: Seems like this wouldn't be necessary until SWLRT opens - right now most people leaving a game would head to the near-side tracks to go east on Blue or Green. Even after SWLRT/Bottineau open, why not just use the expensive skyways to the DTE ramp vertical circulation, and improve a stairway down towards the north station platform area?
I'm confused what you're proposing... Are you saying people should take the skyway over to the Ryan project then through that building, back outside, and across the street to the LRT platform? Or are you saying we should consider modifying the plans for the skyway from the Ryan project to the stadium to incorporate something like this?

Re: Minnesota Multi Purpose Stadium

Posted: August 26th, 2014, 9:29 am
by mattaudio
This new Met Council PDF does not show the skyway across 4th Street to the DTE ramp. Maybe that's not planned anymore, but I thought it was required because that ramp was counted against the NFL's required parking spaces accessible via climate controlled space.

Re: Downtown East / Vikings Stadium LRT Station

Posted: August 26th, 2014, 9:36 am
by twincitizen
It now seems any possibility of ever developing that block are gone.

Maybe instead of spending $6.7MM in dedicated transit money on this bridge (plus $2MM from MSFA), we could partner with a developer (like Ryan, Mortenson, or Zygi) to somehow incorporate this pedestrian movement into a building of some kind. This just seems really shortsighted.

As mattaudio commented on the F&C story, the ped bridge doesn't even benefit eastbound passengers on the existing LRT lines, due to the side platform configuration. The ped bridge would truly only serve those taking Southwest or Bottineau (or I guess either line to points west within downtown, like to Target Field Station/Northstar).

Mostly, it's just a nightmare that this is going to consume $6.7MM in local transit capital funds. If we're going to spend that kind of money on this station, we could at least add a center platform (while retaining both side platforms) for transfers from Blue to Green.

Re: Downtown East / Vikings Stadium LRT Station

Posted: August 26th, 2014, 9:42 am
by IllogicalJake
twincitizen wrote:http://finance-commerce.com/2014/08/ped ... s-stadium/

It now seems any possibility of ever developing that block are gone.

Maybe instead of spending $6.7MM in dedicated transit money on this bridge (plus $2MM from MSFA), we could partner with a developer (like Ryan, Mortenson, or Zygi) to somehow incorporate this pedestrian movement into a building of some kind. This just seems really shortsighted.

As mattaudio commented on the F&C story, the ped bridge doesn't even benefit eastbound passengers on the existing LRT lines, due to the side platform configuration. The ped bridge would truly only serve those taking Southwest or Bottineau (or I guess either line to points west within downtown, like to Target Field Station/Northstar).

Mostly, it's just a nightmare that this is going to consume $6.7MM in local transit capital funds. If we're going to spend that kind of money on this station, we could at least add a center platform (while retaining both side platforms) for transfers from Blue to Green.
I'll admit I'm surprised. With all of the work in the area, I thought for sure this station would also see some improvement. But I was hoping it'd be in the form of a center platform...

Re: Downtown East / Vikings Stadium LRT Station

Posted: August 26th, 2014, 9:44 am
by mattaudio
Agreed, this would be totally different if we used a little money to build an open-air connection above the LRT to a building on the air rights of the ramp that actually served a non-gameday function. Maybe some sort of park pavillion with a restaurant overlooking the Yard or whatever. I'm sure we could be creative here and get much more for our money. Assuming the Vikings stadium will last three decades, this is nearly $20k in local transit capital funds per game.

Re: Downtown East / Vikings Stadium LRT Station

Posted: August 26th, 2014, 10:12 am
by HiawathaGuy
There has been discussion about connecting this bridge with another from the air rights proposal with the adjacent parking ramp. I full-heartily agree with many of you who think investing this sort of money into a bridge, instead of redesigning the current station to be center platform seems odd. But, I'm also of the thought that doing anything differently is not an option. I can't imagine if building a new center platform station north of the new stadium was an option that it wouldn't be explored. Perhaps it has - and deemed unfeasible. So, if the current platform is the only option, and no center platform is viable, then building a pedestrian bridge and queuing space on the NW corner of this block, for the not-to-distance-future Green & Blue Line extensions makes sense. Waiting until 2019 or 2021 to build this bridge would cost even more.

There are a lot of big thinkers and players involved in the new stadium and surrounding blocks. I cannot believe that every options hasn't been explored. Maybe I'm too optimistic, or have rose colored glasses on - but I have to think that either costs are too high or politics too great for anything else to happen with regard to transit stations/building opportunities for this area.

Re: Minnesota Multi Purpose Stadium

Posted: August 26th, 2014, 10:22 am
by HiawathaGuy
mattaudio wrote:This new Met Council PDF does not show the skyway across 4th Street to the DTE ramp. Maybe that's not planned anymore, but I thought it was required because that ramp was counted against the NFL's required parking spaces accessible via climate controlled space.
From the Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development thread: https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f ... &start=420

A series of bid packages is hitting the streets for the nearly $50 million parking ramp and skyway system next to the new Minnesota Vikings stadium in downtown Minneapolis.

Re: Minnesota Multi Purpose Stadium

Posted: August 26th, 2014, 11:33 am
by mattaudio
HiawathaGuy wrote:
mattaudio wrote:This new Met Council PDF does not show the skyway across 4th Street to the DTE ramp. Maybe that's not planned anymore, but I thought it was required because that ramp was counted against the NFL's required parking spaces accessible via climate controlled space.
From the Stadium Parking Ramp Air Rights Development thread: https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f ... &start=420

A series of bid packages is hitting the streets for the nearly $50 million parking ramp and skyway system next to the new Minnesota Vikings stadium in downtown Minneapolis.
The new article is paywalled - anyone want to comment if it talks about the potential skyway across 4th to the existing DTE ramp? that skyway was pictured in a few Yard/Stadium renderings but is no longer there.

Re: Downtown East / Vikings Stadium LRT Station

Posted: August 26th, 2014, 12:24 pm
by Rich

Re: Minnesota Multi Purpose Stadium

Posted: August 26th, 2014, 1:35 pm
by HiawathaGuy
mattaudio wrote:The new article is paywalled - anyone want to comment if it talks about the potential skyway across 4th to the existing DTE ramp? that skyway was pictured in a few Yard/Stadium renderings but is no longer there.
Also, the skyway (or a tunnel) was part of the legislation:
Minnesota Sports Facilities Authority 2014 Legislative Report wrote:In July 2013, the Authority selected Ryan Companies to design and construct the required parking development and skyway connections to the new stadium. With this selection, the Authority, MN Vikings, Ryan Companies and the city of Minneapolis developed a tri-party agreement that will further develop the Downtown East (DTE) region of the city. On Friday, December 13, 2013, the Minneapolis City Council approved the agreement. This development will connect the new stadium to the downtown core through the Wells Fargo Office Towers, and will also generate mixed-use development such as retail, housing and a two-block park adjacent to the new stadium plaza. The Authority also purchased the DTE parking ramp previously owned by Minneapolis Ventures, LLC. Through this development, the Authority met the stadium legislation requirement of having 2,000 parking spaces within one block of the stadium, connected by skyway or tunnel to the stadium, and 500 parking spaces within two blocks of the stadium, with a dedicated walkway on game days.
Personally I'm excited to see how this proposal pans out, possibly in conjunction to a north connection to the new air rights development (which hopefully will have some new news out soon) across 4th. This whole area will be so different in just a few short years.