Nicollet Mall

[mnmike]

How in the world is Macy's invisible from the street level? They do cover the window displays at night, but there are big Macy's signs and window displays at the street level during the day, and even some windows into the store....and 3 street level entrances.

Agree though, that the area is kind of in limbo at the moment.

[Minneapolitan]

The macys signs may as well not be there. They are so basic and lost. I hate it.

[LyndaleHoosier]

You do realize that the name Nicollet Mall doesn't refer to the idea of a shopping mall, correct? Mall also means 'promenade'.

[talindsay]

You know, they have the same problem in DC - the shopping along the National Mall is terrible.

[Didier]

Obama was actually advocating for a new Orange Julius on the mall to boost foot traffic but Paul Ryan and the Republicans obstructed, of course.

[trigonalmayhem]

Has anyone seen any actual designs for this yet? It's getting pretty close to real construction time and I haven't seen anything more than dreamy renderings. I'd really like to see what the transit shelters are going to look like and how they will interact with everything. Now would be a perfect time to add off board fare machines but I'm sure that isn't part of it.

[grant1simons2]

Man, who hired you?

http://nicolletmallproject.com/

Here's a 94 page contractor informational meeting: http://nicollet.wpengine.com/wp-content ... or-Mtg.pdf

[intercomnut]

These have got to be some of the least-sheltery shelters:

http://nicollet.wpengine.com/gallery-2

[trigonalmayhem]

Thanks Grant, that's exactly what i was looking for.

Someone needs to tell them this isn't LA and people still ride transit when it's cold. What the hell are 'thin profile heat lamps?' Not that they'll make any difference when there's nothing to protect you from the wind. Also you can fit maybe like five people in those shelters ... Did no one designing this ever bother actually sitting downtown to see how many people are waiting for the bus on a normal day?

I can't say I'm surprised but I am disappointed. This is exactly the downgrade for local transit I was afraid it would be.

[mamundsen]

I've started thinking the same thing now that I see the A Line shelters starting to pop up along the line. They are more permanent in that they have a concrete base, but they actually provide less protection than the old shelters and they do not appear to be any larger.

[PhilmerPhil]

It's unfortunate they decided not to go with my suggestion of keeping the crosswalks pulled back a little bit. It looks like they'll be built right up to the corners. The extra space in front of the crosswalks always provided a nice queuing space for cyclists to wait, and you know they're not going to wait at the stop lines before the crosswalks after the reconstruction.

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9739514 ... 312!8i6656

With the crosswalks pulled up to the corner, I'm expecting frequent conflicts between peds trying to cross and cyclists waiting for a green (or more likely, a break in traffic).

[Minneapolitan]

These have got to be some of the least-sheltery shelters:

http://nicollet.wpengine.com/gallery-2

It literally is basic bus shelter. What did u want? Doors? A welcome mat? Lemme guess...a wetbar?
Pls

[VacantLuxuries]

Well, for one, glass surrounding the entire shelter to shield waiting passengers from the wind is a basic necessity for our climate.

[acs]

The debate over the shelters is funny, because the #1 public comment by far during the design process wasn't "we want better transit shelters" it was "please get buses off Nicollet mall".

[trigonalmayhem]

That's because transit riders were stuck waiting for late buses in the existing shoddy bus stops instead of attending meetings or filling out online comments.

Also who cares about those comments because they didn't remove transit. If it's going to stay on the mall it needs to have adequate infrastructure to accommodate it.

But this city has shown time and time again that it hates local transit and its users. They want to white wash the mall and a lot of local transit riders aren't the white yuppies they put in architectural renderings, so maybe if they make riding transit even worse they'll magically make those people disappear or something. Maybe they should paint some more lines on the sidewalk for transit riders to wait on one side of or risk being tazered by police.

Oh and if you think a 'basic' bus shelter is acceptable for the nexus of the transit system and the busiest locations for boardings, I can't even dignify that with a response.

[FISHMANPET]

Do you really truly honestly think that "the city" actually hates transit riders? Or do you think it's more likely that they just don't understand transit?

[trigonalmayhem]

Their actions point to at best a complete disregard for transit users. I'm sure a few council members do actively hate transit users, though.

But yes, I did use a little hyperbole in wording there. The city government, be it the elected or staff level, must be placing the needs of transit users at the very bottom of their priorities if we judge based on their actions and not their empty words.

Either that or they are super incompetent and have never taken the bus when it's cold or busy.

[HiawathaGuy]

I would think that any transit-related decisions are Metro Transit and Met Council's solely. The City certainly has input, but I honestly think you're directing your frustrations and anger at the wrong people. Not to mention venting to a large group that is genuinely in agreement with you. So you're "preaching to the choir". If you're really that upset about it, I would encourage you to reach out and find out how you can get involved... because bitching on this forum won't change reality.

This argument isn't new. The same arguments have been made regarding the Blue Line, circa 2004. And the Green Line, circa 2014. Metro Transit believes that these shelters provide riders with the basics on high-frequency routes - where people aren't waiting long for the next train/bus. While I hate waiting under a limited source of heat in a wind-swept shelter at my Blue Line station during the winter - I remember that I'm never there all that long. And amazingly, I survive. Even if uncomfortable for a few minutes.

[trigonalmayhem]

Was metro transit really that involved in these designs for the nicollet mall project though? They're plenty guilty on their own, and they've never been very good about coordinating with the city (and vice versa), but it seems to me this project is almost entirely driven by the city. If metro transit asked specifically for these garbage shelters I'll gladly redirect my ire, but I've seen nothing to suggest this isn't just the city doing what it wants and metro transit either rubber stamping it or not even being involved. Not that I expect the agency that brought us the most pathetic light rail shelters imaginable to really stand up for the needs of its riders, but in this case I think the blame lies mostly at the feet of the city.

Oh and try waiting for a train that's delayed by some unknown and uncommunicated reason for over half an hour when it's twenty below with a ridiculous wind. Even when you wait a 'normal' amount of time for a bus/train, that can be 30 minutes during certain times of day and on weekends especially. So if you build a shelter that provides no shelter and make people wait more than a few minutes by the very design of your service (or even just by very frequent failures of it being on time) I'd call that problematic in a place where weather gets as extreme as it can here. It drives people with choice away from using transit and it punishes the most vulnerable who have no alternatives. It's unacceptable no matter how you frame it.

Also I have been drafting a letter regarding this issue and I'm in the process of editing it and finding the right audience to send it to. I don't reserve my complaining exclusively for you fine folks, but you do make a good sounding board when I'm figuring out how to frame an issue when I send a letter that will most likely be ignored or politely dismissed (as has been my experience).

[VacantLuxuries]

I wonder why public employees wouldn't want to respond to a letter that suggests that they are purposefully doing poorly at their jobs to spite transit riders.