Nicollet Mall

[Street Kred]

God. The comments on the Star Tribune story are almost exclusively either:

• What, they couldn't find a local firm to do this?

• If any state money goes to this project I will be mad!

The (mostly) pompous and uniformed people that comment on the Strib website make me weap for the future. Perhaps this NYC firm is just better than those others that submitted a proposal.

I'm pretty sure the NYC firm won, because its NYC. If anyone has ever been to TImes Square, you know that it all takes place on open streets. Cars are still surrounding the people, and vice versa. They haven't closed off any streets except for one half a block. Why? Because its in the heart of the city, there are people always there. Its a tourist trap. People expect it to be crazy, and the non-tourists typicaly bypass it.
Nicollet mall is obnoxious right now because there aren't people there.
Downtown Minneapolis is not People-dense, compared to other downtowns. It closes at 8pm, and 10 on the weekends.
The fact that the metro area is so huge means that people are commuting 40 minutes from their suburb, and because of that, it isn't convieneint to take the bus downtown because there are so many cars. and the skyways also take people off the street.

Nicollet Mall as a pedestrian, transit mall is a brilliant idea, but at this point, I don't feel there are enough people to make it worthwhile.
Build up housing, Build up retail, build up everything!
There is so much open space downtown, both parking lots, and business plazas that having an open pedestrian mall is almost superfluous.

[Minnekid]

^It's happening, just very slowly. Two apartment projects might be online on nicollet area in a few years, one massive one by loring park. It is happening.

[John]

Marq4, Nic on Fifth, LPM and Soo Line will add over 1000 new residents very close to Nicollet Mall which will have a moderately good influence on the Mall and make it somewhat more lively, especially on the northern end. It's hard to see their effect yet as they are all under construction. Realistically, I think we need several thousand more residents in the core CBD to create a powerhouse demographic that significantly influences a more dynamic retail scene to happen on Nicollet Mall. That will mean quite a few large scale projects that are located on small parcels of land. I think it will happen, but it will take time.

[PhilmerPhil]

I really don't get all the negativity towards the current state of Nicollet Mall. It's gotta be one of the best urban places to walk in the state, no? Great people watching, architecture, etc.

[mullen]

i think the mall just needs the refresh this reconstruction offers. it is one of the best urban places to walk and it will be even better in a couple years.

i like the architects plan to splice the mall into three segments focusing on residential areas, business and cultural on the south end/peavey plaza. there is a lot of great stuff in those renderings and i hope it comes to fruition. lots of trees, clustered in a forest like effect with movable chairs, open theater type spaces, connecting skyway to street in a cohesive way.

i'll be interested to see what type of sidewalk pavers they decide to use. it appears there will be variety and the various zones will have different stone. putting balconies on the skyways is also innovative and great way to make use of those second level spaces beyond just being throughways between buildings. the mall is in good hands with this team. it's a good mix of national experience and local designers.

[min-chi-cbus]

^It's happening, just very slowly. Two apartment projects might be online on nicollet area in a few years, one massive one by loring park. It is happening.

Care to add any details, such as location, height, timeline, etc.?

Every time sidewalk traffic is brought up the response is generally that we need more residential. However, it's not residential that makes Times Square a bustling can of sardines that it is, it's the retail. Retail is what brings people on the sidewalks, and to a lesser extent, office.

Think about it. When you are at your home you generally stay inside except for to go to work, go to the store, visit a friend/relative, etc. The # of times you leave your place and walk down a street are minimal, at least compared to shopping, where you are on the street for several hours, slowly walking and stopping at various establishments along the same short path. Times Square, Millenium Park, and other examples of American pedestrian malls tend to have this aspect, in addition to a source of entertainment -- whether it's an icon, park, museum, etc.

[Tom H.]

I think he was referring to the Nic, Marq4, and LPM, respectively.

[Didier]

People are talking about LPM as if it's on Nicollet Mall. It's not far, but it's far enough away that I doubt it's going to result in a significant increase in people walking around aimlessly at night.

[mamundsen]

I disagree. I used to live in the North Loop (50 4th Ave N to be exact) and I would always convince my friends to come downtown for a night out. We would bar hop across town and would end up on Nicollett Mall very frequently. Barrio and Brits are good fun.

Now taking a quick look, it is a 4-5 block walk from LPM to Brits. I would imagine MANY people heading "into town" that way.

[Viktor Vaughn]

Finance and Commerce is reporting that dfl support at the legislature for a Nicollet Mall redo is not assured.

http://finance-commerce.com/2013/11/key ... z2jtBLKNQT

The city’s $25 million bonding request for 2014 has drawn criticism from state Rep. Alice Hausman, DFL-St. Paul, who chairs the House Capital Investment Committee, which assembles bonding projects into a single bill. Hausman and her committee toured Nicollet Mall on Oct. 30 with outgoing Mayor R.T. Rybak. She said she’s concerned that the project is merely fixing aging concrete along the mall.

“[Rybak] showed us a pothole in the street,” Hausman said referring to the tour with city officials. “But frankly there are potholes everywhere [in the state]. We don’t do that. I have to understand it well enough to sell it to other legislators. I think I still have a lot of work to do on that.”

[MNdible]

Imagine that -- Alice Hausman doesn't feel like she's getting her ego stroked enough and doesn't like a Minneapolis project. It's time for somebody else to chair this committee -- she's let the power go to her head and is too parochial.

[mullen]

Yes this is so obvious. St. Paul projects move to the front of the line. God knows we need another renovated theater hosting concerts.

[Wedgeguy]

I'd prefer some landlords spend some money turning their buildings into inviting places and do what ever it take to get rid of long blank walls and the feeling of you entering a Nuclear Bomb shelter. I can wait a few years for the mall to be rebuilt. I'd like to see what happens on the mall as far as the new residential and if it draws more shoppers. There definitely needs to be more restaurants at the north end of the Mall. There needs to be more retail walls on the north end to mall as well. Across from Excel and the library. The people of the north loop and the mill district need places to go to that are not a 6 block walk down the mall.

The mall need work, but it still is far better than a majority of the downtowns out there.

[uptown067]

I recognize this won't be a popular comment on here but.... To some extent I see her point. From an aesthetic standpoint, the current mall really doesn't look that bad (recognizing there's structural issues that need to be improved). The mall itself (sidewalk and streetscape, NOT storefronts) still have a lot of character.

There's other areas of downtown that would benefit substantially more from the funds. $25 million spent to improve the overall streetscape of the North Loop would have a substantially larger impact on downtown than rebuilding Nicollet Mall.

[Wedgeguy]

I agree that the mall looks like it has a half dozen more years left in it. IT still look much better than a majority of the countries downtowns. But I also do understand the wasted tax dollar we will have to spend just to keep the mall in safe repair. That could end up as hundreds of thousands of dollars.

But I still say why spend money on a mall that is fancy landscaping, when a lot of the sections of the mall are seen as being inhospitable. With too few doors and windows to make the investment really count. There needs to be major investments along the mall to justify the money being spent on the mall itself. Until those investment are guaranteed, I'm up for waiting to invest in the mall. Let's do it right and done at one time and not many times. The Downtown Council has some work to do first to get the investments moving along side the mall. Then we can feel it is worth our tax dollar investment.

[Minneboy]

It really isn't much of a retail mall any longer is it?

[Wedgeguy]

It really isn't much of a retail mall any longer is it?

Everything went indoor mall with few door to get in and out of the buildings. Anyone from out of town walking down the mall would be hard pressed to know that there is retail in City Center, both Gaviidaes, unlike the IDS where the is great signage and lot's of windows and doors to the mall that are open. Part of retail is location, location, location. The other is signage and being seen from the outdoors and the skyways. We know what does not work, so I would hope that in the future we will work to make stores visible. Look at Calhoun square as what needs to be done in with future development. Doors that open to the streets as well and the inside. H&M did major windows on the second floor to let those outside know that they had a second floor that they should not miss. Why is Uptown doing so well with high rents, yet independents still survive. You now have stores along Hennepin on the west side that draw customers. Calhoun knew that they needed to make sure that those customers knew what they had for stores and that they did not have to walk to a mall entrance to get into the store from Hennepin. Downtown need to do the same.

[lordmoke]

Open house on the redesign Thrusday, Dec. 5th, team doing the design will be present. RSVP required:
http://www.nicolletmallproject.com/

[Minneapolisite]

Marq4, Nic on Fifth, LPM and Soo Line will add over 1000 new residents very close to Nicollet Mall which will have a moderately good influence on the Mall and make it somewhat more lively, especially on the northern end. It's hard to see their effect yet as they are all under construction. Realistically, I think we need several thousand more residents in the core CBD to create a powerhouse demographic that significantly influences a more dynamic retail scene to happen on Nicollet Mall. That will mean quite a few large scale projects that are located on small parcels of land. I think it will happen, but it will take time.

Once again, there is no need for several thousand more downtown residents. We already have nearly 10,000 more than Portland does (if you include everything inside the highway and west of the river including the Pearl District). The difference is that in Portland there are more walkable stretches of retail: go east of Nicollet Mall on any given street and you'll struggle to count many street-level spaces that are within a block or two. We don't have any east-west street aside from Washington and that isn't nearly as walkable as Nicollet, but by far the best east-west corridor in all of Downtown. We need less parking lots and more street level retail spaces to bridge gaps and even just a few stories of apartments on top of them would suffice: no need for 20+ stories. We only need to look at a couple of our densest residential neighborhoods such as Stevens Square and Loring Park to see that tons of people does not result in bustling sidewalks. We need more well connected, destination rich stretches of restaurants, bars, and shops to branch east and west off of our most vibrant corridors and spread the love.

[Aville_37]

I agree - you can't count on one street to make downtown an interesting place to be. I am all for a Nicollet Mall renovation, but wish the city would spend just as much attention on making other streets downtown, especially those east-west streets more pedestrian friendly with shops, restaurants, trees, etc.