urbanMSP

Buses also stir up a lot of dust. It is really annoying walking down the mall with buses. Wish they would realize this.

Buses also stir up a lot of dust. It is really annoying walking down the mall with buses. Wish they would realize this.

The reason the buses haven't been moved is that moving them anywhere else would either decimate ridership by requiring substantial detours or reduce the street they're rerouted on to a crawl between 6am & 8pm. You could try contributing constructively to a conversation for once by suggesting an alternative where that wouldn't happen

The buses aren't going anywhere folks. That much has been decided. David Frank stated it in plain English last night.

Take that conversation elsewhere or start up a protest campaign/petition to get buses off the mall. We're not going to have a circular discussion about it here for months on end. I will start deleting posts.

I'm not trying to be a dictator on this, but any further arguing about buses is pointless. The decision has been made. Move on.

Starting now, let's have a conversation that's actually connected to the actual Nicollet Mall project at hand.

The buses aren't going anywhere folks. That much has been decided. David Frank stated it in plain English last night.

With that in mind the center island concept should be nipped in the bud. The idea of making 7th and Nicollet the center of town is an outdated urban planning concept that harkens back to the 1970's when the IDS tower/Crystal Court dominated everything. The goal should be lots and lots of activity happening throughout the corridor. And I think we are going to see a lot of the energy of downtown shift northward towards Washington Ave.

Twincitizen's point about buses is absolutely spot on. But it also shows the need for us to have a long-term approach that deals with bus overcrowding downtown. We need to convert more downtown transit ridership from buses to high-capacity rail (LRT). Especially alleviating north/south capacity. And ideally with some sort of grade separation.

A new north/south LRT spine, serving SWLRT, Nicollet, Central Ave, etc should be on our long-term radar. And we should be asking if there's anything we can do now, spending $5 million per block and possibly $200+ million on a streetcar, to make that transition easier in the future.

Hey, they posted the new PDF.
http://www.nicolletmallproject.com/wp-c ... tation.pdf

The most enticing renderings are the ones that show a lot of trees and greenery. That's really what's lacking on the mall and what most people seem to want. I have this feeling that there's some over-thinking going on in the design. I think the 7th and Nicollet depictions greatly exaggerate the ammount of space to work with. I can't imagine there will be a enough room for trees with that center island.

The buses aren't going anywhere folks. That much has been decided. David Frank stated it in plain English last night.

Take that conversation elsewhere or start up a protest campaign/petition to get buses off the mall. We're not going to have a circular discussion about it here for months on end. I will start deleting posts.

I'm not trying to be a dictator on this, but any further arguing about buses is pointless. The decision has been made. Move on.

Starting now, let's have a conversation that's actually connected to the actual Nicollet Mall project at hand.

Partially overruled for this reason:

Buses are easily the worst aspect of the mall right now for me. They're loud, spew fumes and pile up 4 deep constantly. No one is going to go on that center island when they have to dodge buses constantly.

I was simply pointing out that "who wants to sit on steps with stinky busses on either side?" is a no-go for me.

Busses belching smog!

Have you guys been on Nicollet in the past five years? The low emission hybrid busses on the Nicollet Mall routes (10, 11, 17, 18, 25) are less of an environmental hazard than people smoking on the sidewalk. And they're not really any louder than the background noise of downtown, as far as I can tell.

And, sidebar, firepits? Really? I think that's a great idea in theory, but have they had any attorneys thoroughly think that one through?

The slide show calls for a transit hub on Nicollet, in front of the Xcel plaza, but that block doesn't have a more detailed slide. Did they talk about it at all at the meeting? I'm happily imagining the Xcel security team having a collective coronary at the thought of another inducement to people loitering by their building.

I was simply pointing out that "who wants to sit on steps with stinky busses on either side?" is a no-go for me.

Have you guys been on Nicollet in the past five years? The low emission hybrid busses on the Nicollet Mall routes (10, 11, 17, 18, 25) are less of an environmental hazard than people smoking on the sidewalk. And they're not really any louder than the background noise of downtown, as far as I can tell.

You misunderstood my point. I was saying that the stinky buses argument held no water, pulled no weight, had no merit for me. Whether or not there's room for the steps/median/island is the discussion that matters.

The slide show calls for a transit hub on Nicollet, in front of the Xcel plaza, but that block doesn't have a more detailed slide. Did they talk about it at all at the meeting? I'm happily imagining the Xcel security team having a collective coronary at the thought of another inducement to people loitering by their building.

They did talk a little about this transit hub. Obviously it's here because of the light rail. They showed pictures of the possible bus shelter. Julie Snow Architecs are designing the bus shelters. They also talked about having bike parking and a bike repair station here.

Love the hypocrisy from those who post on this site. Many rant and rant about how we continue to get the same boring buildings going up - uninspiring, unimaginative bla bla bla and equally how great it would be for out-state developers/architects to come into the Twin Cities market. We get a an amazing New York firm to be selected to redesign the Nicollet Mall and all anyone can do is bitch and complain about the plan and put it down. Talk about Minnesotans needing to open up to new ideas and take chances.

Love the hypocrisy from those who post on this site. Many rant and rant about how we continue to get the same boring buildings going up - uninspiring, unimaginative bla bla bla and equally how great it would be for out-state developers/architects to come into the Twin Cities market. We get a an amazing New York firm to be selected to redesign the Nicollet Mall and all anyone can do is bitch and complain about the plan and put it down. Talk about Minnesotans needing to open up to new ideas and take chances.

Well with the exception of the bus haters, I don't really think anyone is bitching. The plan has some weaknesses and I don't see anything wrong with pointing them out. It's entirely possible to have design that's imaginative, but practical at the same time - the two are not mutually exclusive.

And for that matter, what could be more Minnesotan than to say " Oh well, they're from New York so they must know a lot more than we do".

The slide show calls for a transit hub on Nicollet, in front of the Xcel plaza, but that block doesn't have a more detailed slide. Did they talk about it at all at the meeting? I'm happily imagining the Xcel security team having a collective coronary at the thought of another inducement to people loitering by their building.

They did talk a little about this transit hub. Obviously it's here because of the light rail. They showed pictures of the possible bus shelter. Julie Snow Architecs are designing the bus shelters. They also talked about having bike parking and a bike repair station here.

Wonderful!Downtown really does need more bike parking.

And, sidebar, firepits? Really? I think that's a great idea in theory, but have they had any attorneys thoroughly think that one through?

It's not uncommon, though. An outdoor mall I've been to in the suburbs of Indy has a couple pits. Mostly automated, just very small flames to put off the heat. Nobody's gathering around them to sing campfire songs or anything...

Though, they definitely don't look like that render. I doubt it'll look anything like that, really.

What I want to know: When do we get the levitating street car shown on page 10?

And, sidebar, firepits? Really? I think that's a great idea in theory, but have they had any attorneys thoroughly think that one through?

I don't like the idea of fire pits for the same reason, well, actually because I wouldn't want my kids to think it's fun to play with the flames. I DO wish there would be heat lamps or some kind of attractive alternative along the entirety of Nicollet Avenue. Maybe even something that could double as a feature for other seasons of the year (like a mosquito trap). Anything to make walking along Nicollet Mall during winters like this one an actual viable option, and also something that makes visiting the city a more enjoyable experience for those not accustomed to killer cold air.

When design is practical, and not just cutesy or kitchy, it will be embraced by the community.

Public fire pits are pretty common in resort towns out west. Plenty-o kids around. I do think the rendering is not reality with the low slung pit and fire out to the edges. But the way these things are actually built they are most definitely not dangerous. I guess, yes, if someone really wanted to shove their hand in the fire they just might get burned. They could also walk in front of a bus. And I'm pretty sure those kill more people than fire pits.

Those islands at Times Square are also much wider, and there is still plenty of space on the sidewalks. Nicollet Mall is too narrow for this to work properly. The sidewalks arent wide enough the way it is for a true mall. Split up the driving lanes and it becomes even more scarce for pedestrian space on the true sidewalks.

did you go to the presentation? so much was said there about ample space, they were very detail oriented and for only being 8% into design they had sidewalk depths extremely well thought out down to where there was soil underneath for planting.