Nicollet Mall

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
twincitizen
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Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby twincitizen » March 4th, 2014, 12:23 pm

Theoretically, whenever you feel like it. The real question is "how long would it take Metro Transit to put them back?"

I've heard in passing that the City (or Downtown Council) doesn't like them. It's sign pollution, plain and simple. If people can't figure out that they can only board the bus at bus stops, that's just...too bad for them. The driver shouldn't open the door or even make eye contact with them. Which brings us to another tangent: bus drivers in the Twin Cities need to toughen up and enforce the rules (exit through the back, no music without headphones, etc.)

Just so I don't get us too off topic on a bus thing (and we do have a Nicollet Streetcar thread), this NYTimes article regarding Denver's bus/ped mall was posted in the early days of UrbanMSP (2012). I just read it and though it was worthy of a re-share for our many folks who may have missed it: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/10/us/de ... ml?_r=1&hp

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woofner
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Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby woofner » March 4th, 2014, 12:43 pm

I'm going to seize on this tangent because my morning 4 has been 15 minutes late the last two days.

While I agree with the principle of requiring the procedures you mention, we have to keep in mind that Metro Transit struggles to function at a basic level as a transit system. If, for example, I see a 4 stopped at 4th St that's 5 minutes early because the previous 4 was 15 minutes late, does it make business sense to make me wait 25 minutes for the next 4? It's not necessarily Metro Transit's fault that it's dysfunctional of course, but it still needs to set policies that fit a dysfunctional transit agency, not a functional one.

This is what's so insulting about their "don't run mmkay" campaign. Run your buses frequently and on time, and then we'll talk about not running to catch a bus. But how dare you ask me to not run when a) I can't count on the next bus to even show up, much less show up on time, and b) I might lose my job if I miss this bus.
"Who rescued whom!"

ndokken
City Center
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Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby ndokken » March 4th, 2014, 12:59 pm

I refer to the 4 as the infrequent 4. It's the crappiest bus route. Last Monday it was late 40 minutes. 40 MINUTES it was late.

5th Ave Guy
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Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby 5th Ave Guy » March 4th, 2014, 1:28 pm

woofner wrote:I'm going to seize on this tangent because my morning 4 has been 15 minutes late the last two days.

While I agree with the principle of requiring the procedures you mention, we have to keep in mind that Metro Transit struggles to function at a basic level as a transit system. If, for example, I see a 4 stopped at 4th St that's 5 minutes early because the previous 4 was 15 minutes late, does it make business sense to make me wait 25 minutes for the next 4? It's not necessarily Metro Transit's fault that it's dysfunctional of course, but it still needs to set policies that fit a dysfunctional transit agency, not a functional one.

This is what's so insulting about their "don't run mmkay" campaign. Run your buses frequently and on time, and then we'll talk about not running to catch a bus. But how dare you ask me to not run when a) I can't count on the next bus to even show up, much less show up on time, and b) I might lose my job if I miss this bus.
Sounds like it'd be easier if you just had a car. ;)

PhilmerPhil
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Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby PhilmerPhil » March 4th, 2014, 3:31 pm

woofner wrote:I might lose my job if I miss this bus.
"Wait a minute. You have a job and you're riding the bus?!"

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woofner
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Re: Nicollet Mall

Postby woofner » March 5th, 2014, 10:27 am

5th Ave Guy wrote:Sounds like it'd be easier if you just had a car. ;)
It's certainly tempting to transform my punctuality problem into someone else's respiratory problem.
"Who rescued whom!"

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Realstreets
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Nicollet Mall Project

Postby Realstreets » March 10th, 2014, 12:43 pm

I've only seen the latest pdf on the project website so forgive me if this has already been discussed. Has there been any mention of the concept of "Shared Space" in the redesign discussions? I'd like to see them get rid of the curbs. I know this might be contentious but I really do think it would add to the idea of Nicolett [sic] being a true mall and not just a street with big sidewalks. With it being restricted to buses I think this could really work here.

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Nathan
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Re: Nicollet Mall Project

Postby Nathan » March 10th, 2014, 12:58 pm

From what I saw at the presentation, no curbs to speak of. There WILL be busses.

martykoessel
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Nicollet Mall Project

Postby martykoessel » March 10th, 2014, 9:19 pm

I like the busses better than buses. Lots of kissing on the Mall would be nice!

nickmgray
Union Depot
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Re: Nicollet Mall Project

Postby nickmgray » March 11th, 2014, 11:02 am

Nathan wrote:From what I saw at the presentation, no curbs to speak of. There WILL be busses.
That is great news. It will give the mall a much more fluid feel and give priority to pedestrians

PhilmerPhil
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Re: Nicollet Mall Project

Postby PhilmerPhil » March 11th, 2014, 11:16 am

How would a curbless design work with bus loading? The buses queue up the entire block lengths during rush hour, so a raised platform at the current bus stop locations would not suffice.

nickmgray
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Re: Nicollet Mall Project

Postby nickmgray » March 11th, 2014, 12:59 pm

Why can't we have a curbless road? I've seen it done countless times without any issues. You don't been curbs for drainage or to keep pedestrians out of the way of traffic.

Here are a few examples

Image
Image
http://munsonscity.files.wordpress.com/ ... -55-11.jpg
http://milestoneimports.com/wp-content/ ... Street.jpg

PhilmerPhil
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Re: Nicollet Mall Project

Postby PhilmerPhil » March 11th, 2014, 1:09 pm

Right, I love the idea of curbless streets and think Hennepin between Lake and 31st would be a great candidate. Safety/delineation can be mitigated, but what about bus boarding? How is that handled on a curbless street?

seanrichardryan
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Re: Nicollet Mall Project

Postby seanrichardryan » March 11th, 2014, 1:28 pm

As I understand it, there will be no curbs, but the paving will change when transitioning to the driving lanes to meet ADA.
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nickmgray
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Re: Nicollet Mall Project

Postby nickmgray » March 11th, 2014, 1:37 pm

seanrichardryan wrote:As I understand it, there will be no curbs, but the paving will change when transitioning to the driving lanes to meet ADA.
That's what I'd expect. You still have to have visual or physical cues which designate vehicle and pedestrian areas.

John
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Re: Nicollet Mall Project

Postby John » March 11th, 2014, 4:26 pm

I hope they design a very good drainage sytem for water run off. We have some mighty torrential rainstorms in the summer. :?

seanrichardryan
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Re: Nicollet Mall Project

Postby seanrichardryan » March 11th, 2014, 7:49 pm

Thank God they submitted a proposal that explains it all. Over half the mall will be pervious surface and the lanes will have continuous trench drains. The curbs will be low.

Image
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twincitizen
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Re: Nicollet Mall Project

Postby twincitizen » March 12th, 2014, 9:23 am

Semi-serious question: could we ban chewing gum and/or smoking on Nicollet Mall?

Feel free to separate the two vices if you feel particularly strongly about one or the other.

It wouldn't stop anyone from stepping around the corner to partake in either activity, but it would go a long way to beautify the Mall long term and reduce maintenance costs.

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Realstreets
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Nicollet Mall Project

Postby Realstreets » March 12th, 2014, 9:30 am

That looks great. Glad they reduced the curb to almost nothing. Personally, I don't like the look of a variety of materials. Makes it look dated and seems like the materials could wear at different rates.

FranklinAveFixation
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Re: Nicollet Mall Project

Postby FranklinAveFixation » March 12th, 2014, 10:37 am

Realstreets wrote:That looks great. Glad they reduced the curb to almost nothing. Personally, I don't like the look of a variety of materials. Makes it look dated and seems like the materials could wear at different rates.
My first thought seeing this was, there's no way it will hold up to the weight/wear from all the bus traffic. I expect it will make snow removal difficult as well.


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