Nicollet Mall

[acs]

http://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2015/ ... andoned-it

It's really funny/sad how history repeats itself. I'm sure we'll be back at this in 2045 asking why retail sucks downtown and how many millions we need to spend to make it better. Nicollet isn't coming back until the two most critical flaws are taken seriously; the bums and the skyways, in that order.

[EOst]

Nicollet isn't coming back until the two most critical flaws are taken seriously; the bums and the skyways, in that order.

I'm sure you have a solution in mind.

[Chava]

Neither homeless people or the underground pedestrian tunnels seemed to have stopped State Street in Chicago from coming alive from the sleepy retail place it once was.

State St does have a subway running under it, so it has that going for it. But Nicollett has a light rail stop fed by two lines, so there's that too.

[LakeCharles]

I don't think "the bums" are a big problem at all. A connection to the skyways would be nice though.

I find it interesting that it used to be based around retail, and hence the heart was 6th-8th. Now the busiest stores seem to be the restaurants, and the liveliest parts are further south. So my (extremely uninformed) easy short term fix would be to get some restaurants on the northern end. Or really just anything at all on the northern end.

[acs]

You won't get the public street to skyway connection that is really needed until you clear out the bums and make it safe to do so. That's been the narrative from the building owners for over 30 years.

And I agree with LakeCharles. In my experience living and working downtown the #1 thing that brings vibrancy to an area (narrowly defined as people of any sort on a street/sidewalk) are restaurants. #2 would be transit stops, although there's a big caveat...

[mattaudio]

"Clear out the bums?" I'm not going to take social justice / equity angle because that would just be too easy. But I've spent plenty of time on Nicollet Mall over the years, and I've never felt threatened by "bums" even when I was a high school punk growing up in the distant burbs. Sure, I've seen some shouting matches between cars and people at bus stops, and I've seen that hate group that shows up Friday nights with their loudspeaker, etc. But folks that are just hanging out on the street, maybe with a sign, maybe not, don't seem to be a problem.

[HiawathaGuy]

"Clear out the bums?" I'm not going to take social justice / equity angle because that would just be too easy. But I've spent plenty of time on Nicollet Mall over the years, and I've never felt threatened by "bums" even when I was a high school punk growing up in the distant burbs. Sure, I've seen some shouting matches between cars and people at bus stops, and I've seen that hate group that shows up Friday nights with their loudspeaker, etc. But folks that are just hanging out on the street, maybe with a sign, maybe not, don't seem to be a problem.

I couldn't agree more! If homeless people, or people begging make you uncomfortable - that says more about you, than it does about them.

[Wedgeguy]

I'd say it makes you feel guilty for not doing more in your life to help the unfortunate! I too walk along the mall and rarely feel uncomfortable with the people that are on the mall. You, Yourself, are the one with the problem if you can't handle the realities that are out there in the world!! MPLS is not a Utopia!!

[amiller92]

http://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2015/ ... andoned-it

It's really funny/sad how history repeats itself. I'm sure we'll be back at this in 2045 asking why retail sucks downtown and how many millions we need to spend to make it better. Nicollet isn't coming back until the two most critical flaws are taken seriously; the bums and the skyways, in that order.

Downtown retail needs people who live downtown, and they are coming.

The homeless aren't really an issue at all. They may scare suburban visitors, but we should be done catering to them anyway.

[amiller92]

You won't get the public street to skyway connection that is really needed until you clear out the bums and make it safe to do so. That's been the narrative from the building owners for over 30 years.

And for 30 years, that's been a really silly argument. The homeless who spend all day downtown know how to get in and out of the skyways. They even know where they can spend the night out of view of a security camera.

It's people without the time or inclination to explore that are kept out of the skyways by the lack of connections, and those are exactly the people the building owners claim to want to attract.

[Silophant]

The thing is, though, there isn't a lack of skyway connections on Nicollet. There's an easy (defined as an escalator up to the skyway level that is visible as soon as you step inside the front door) on almost every block. It's just that there's generally not a good way to find them from the sidewalk. We don't need an expensive stair tower that will help in only one place. We just need comprehensive wayfinding signage. If Des Moines, of all places, can do it, surely we can too.

[Wedgeguy]

Some smart tech savvy person should have created an app for that by now to help you thru the skyways and the city!

[MNdible]

Most of the truly treacherous twists and turns of the Skyway are well off of the beaten path in locations where casual visitors and tourists have little chance of finding themselves. If you work downtown, it should take you all of about a week to get your bearings straight.

[Wedgeguy]

Most of the truly treacherous twists and turns of the Skyway are well off of the beaten path in locations where casual visitors and tourists have little chance of finding themselves. If you work downtown, it should take you all of about a week to get your bearings straight.

I'll agree with you there. I think that there are only a few segments that I still have not gone into after all these years. But I'M good with 90% of the skyway system. I do wish they had more maps posted through out the system, besides the main corridors.

[sushisimo]

Eh, I don't know. I think North Star, for sure the Baker Center block, and maybe into TCF is pretty cluster-effy. I've seen fairly obvious tourists and Twins fans bumbling and turning around in this stretch. And of course, that's where it's the oldest and most narrow. It seems the skyways west of Nicollet seem better.

[RailBaronYarr]

There's definitely a mismatch between urbanists' love for old windy streets with terminating vistas, random dead ends, bends that obscure sightlines (all of which add "mystery" to an urban environment) vs. hatred of skyways because they're not super accessible and follow a non-rigid grid.

That said, while Nicollet may be the pedestrian center of downtown, a few staircases as entry points only on the mall does very little for making the skyway easier to get into if you happen to get off a bus/bike/parking garage anywhere else in downtown. I agree a wayfinding system throughout downtown's sidewalks is a much better strategy.

[PhilmerPhil]

Is it possible that tourists have trouble with our skyways because they don't even realize you're supposed to go in them, stairway or not?

In most other cities, aren't the only reasons you enter a building to shop, work, or conduct some sort of business? If I weren't familiar with the system, I'd feel pretty uncomfortable walking into some private office tower without a reason.

[MNdible]

To be clear, I'm not saying that the Skyway public interface shouldn't be improved, or that wayfinding is unnecessary (although I will note that the Skyways actually do have a pretty decent wayfinding program). But I think at some level, short of blowing up downtown and starting from scratch, making the Skyways "easy" for first timers will be unachievable.

I guess I think of it as analogous to The Knowledge -- understanding all of the tricks and shortcuts of the Skyways are something only obtained by using them for a while.

[amiller92]

The thing is, though, there isn't a lack of skyway connections on Nicollet. There's an easy (defined as an escalator up to the skyway level that is visible as soon as you step inside the front door) on almost every block. It's just that there's generally not a good way to find them from the sidewalk. We don't need an expensive stair tower that will help in only one place. We just need comprehensive wayfinding signage. If Des Moines, of all places, can do it, surely we can too.

I'm grant you that Nicollet is a lot better than the rest of downtown in terms of connecting to the street, but I personally thing more and better never hurts.

You're 100% right about wayfinding signage.

[amiller92]

To be clear, I'm not saying that the Skyway public interface shouldn't be improved, or that wayfinding is unnecessary (although I will note that the Skyways actually do have a pretty decent wayfinding program). But I think at some level, short of blowing up downtown and starting from scratch, making the Skyways "easy" for first timers will be unachievable.

As someone who is not a regular in downtown St. Paul: St.Paul's signage is vastly superior to Minneapolis's.