Old Thrivent HQ Block - 4th Ave and 6th St (existing building & new parking ramp)

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
amiller92
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Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Postby amiller92 » July 13th, 2017, 9:03 am

RailBaronYarr wrote:
July 12th, 2017, 9:11 pm
its employees' windows with quite stunning views of a cool new park and stadium.
The center 2/3 or so of that side of the building is windowless wall, though.

SurlyLHT
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Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Postby SurlyLHT » July 13th, 2017, 9:08 am

This proposal seems to be part of something larger. Or at least I hope. It doesn't make sense for Thrivent to simply add more parking capacity on this lot, unless it's part of a larger project which will have demands for the parking. Perhaps the skyway connections toward HCMC is a clue to something larger? The hospital and new building with the clinics would make the lot across the street a good location for some sort of Downtown Senior housing...maybe combined with condos or standard apartments to create something tall and notable? Wishful thinking perhaps. Maybe Thrivent is just making up for the parking lost by the ramp the city is taking down.

mattaudio
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Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Postby mattaudio » July 13th, 2017, 9:20 am

Thrivent employees are telling me the new parking capacity here is to replace the parking capacity which will be lost on the block east of 5th Ave S when that is developed.

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Nathan
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Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Postby Nathan » July 13th, 2017, 9:21 am

SurlyLHT wrote:
July 13th, 2017, 9:08 am
This proposal seems to be part of something larger. Or at least I hope. It doesn't make sense for Thrivent to simply add more parking capacity on this lot, unless it's part of a larger project which will have demands for the parking. Perhaps the skyway connections toward HCMC is a clue to something larger? The hospital and new building with the clinics would make the lot across the street a good location for some sort of Downtown Senior housing...maybe combined with condos or standard apartments to create something tall and notable? Wishful thinking perhaps. Maybe Thrivent is just making up for the parking lost by the ramp the city is taking down.
Thrivant already has as many parking spots downtown on the land that they own. This project is the least that they have to do to consolidate all of their parking needs into their one half block so they can sell their other surface lots to developers (and make more money) it's a half ass job of creating an urban project so they can appease the city. They'd definitely just built a new parking garage if they could.

If there is such crazy good opportunity on the next block east, this half block should be just as full of opportunity.

It's ok looking, but out of scale and hugely underwhelming.

Southside
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Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Postby Southside » July 13th, 2017, 9:57 am

amiller92 wrote:
July 13th, 2017, 9:00 am
Southside wrote:
July 12th, 2017, 2:53 pm
This project looks like it checks a lot of boxes, including extending the heart of downtown further east, replacing some of the parking being lost from the office consolidation project, adds more downtown housing and it sounds like it might be a bit larger when finalized. A big win.
This is a lot in the heart of our downtown "financial district." They're proposing that it be used for a parking structure and 55 units of housing. That's not a win. Not in this location.
Edge of the downtown 'financial district' at best. Say what you will about parking, but financial districts need parking and relatively cheap parking is a competitive advantage for Minneapolis. Obviously there are substitutes to driving, but if your staff needs to pay $3600/year to park it can substantially impact employment and office location decisions.

This lot is across the street from the ugliest high rise in the city, surface lots, and a really oppressive parking lot. Obviously, there's a lot of momentum eastwardly but it's still the low-rent side of downtown. If that changes, they could tear it down and build bigger. Newer buildings get replaced all the time.

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Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Postby mattaudio » July 13th, 2017, 10:00 am

Their employees currently pay $0 per year to park. There's a lot of room between $0 and $3600. $0 is not the market clearing price of parking downtown.

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Nathan
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Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Postby Nathan » July 13th, 2017, 10:09 am

Get torn down? It's not getting torn down. It's 600 parking spots for thrivant... They wouldn't tear it down unless they had another 600 spots in the mean time. The ramp is there to stay and can't be added to because they aren't including an elevator core.

Southside
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Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Postby Southside » July 13th, 2017, 10:13 am

Thrivent doesn't pay zero, it's an employee benefit that could otherwise be spent on salary. There's a lot of arguments about under-taxing private parking structures, and I agree with most of them.

My point isn't about Thrivent though, it's about parking supply in downtown in general. Parking is subject to supply and demand curves just like everything else. If we expand the amount of people downtown and reduce the amount of parking, assuming the same rate of parking consumption, prices will go up. We can assume fewer SOV commuters, but even Midtown Manhattan is a material percentage.

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Postby VacantLuxuries » July 13th, 2017, 10:17 am

If we expand the amount of people downtown and reduce the amount of parking, assuming the same rate of parking consumption, prices will go up.
You say that like it's a bad thing.

amiller92
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Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Postby amiller92 » July 13th, 2017, 10:19 am

Southside wrote:
July 13th, 2017, 9:57 am
financial districts need parking
They do? Urban office districts served by transit are not typified by abundant parking.

Regardless, we just built a huge parking structure on the edge of this particular financial district. It's literally never full during weekdays. It's where I park when it's raining and I drive to work.
and relatively cheap parking is a competitive advantage for Minneapolis
Not it's not. Literally no one picks Minneapolis over another destination for business functions because of parking prices/abundance.

Seriously, if that's a priority, people will pick free parking in the suburbs, not slightly less expensive than it would otherwise be parking in the city (have you ever tried to plan events downtown for people who don't regularly visit?).
but it's still the low-rent side of downtown
The only way that changes is by building good quality stuff there. This does not do that.
Newer buildings get replaced all the time.
You think they're going to tear down essential parking??

min-chi-cbus
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Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Postby min-chi-cbus » July 13th, 2017, 10:23 am

mattaudio wrote:
July 13th, 2017, 8:55 am
To be fair, the Thrivent tower's east face is *mostly a blank wall* because it was *designed for a tower to snug up against it.* https://goo.gl/maps/urLM2krPBG42
It was supposed to be a twin of the existing building, and mimic praying hands, IIRC....

mattaudio
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Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Postby mattaudio » July 13th, 2017, 10:31 am

Yep, now the other hand is "Ballard Operations" in a corn field outside Appleton, WI...

BigIdeasGuy
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Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Postby BigIdeasGuy » July 13th, 2017, 4:17 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:
July 12th, 2017, 7:55 pm
BigIdeasGuy wrote:
July 12th, 2017, 5:07 pm
No, try again.

That should be the city's response to this turd of a proposal. If they are going to insist on the 600 park spots they city should insist that apartments cover the entire exterior at a minimum if not higher and a decent amount should be Section 8/low income/workforce housing. Along with that the city should also require the sale and/or development of their remaining blocks otherwise they will face large property tax increases, being sure to not encourage another 222 Hennepin. Toss in a requirement to provide employees bus passes it could end up being a win for the city. There is a way to make this work for everyone if everyone comes to the table.
I'm guessing most, if not all, of these demands are not legal.
If this project needs variances, CUP's, etc. the city is under no obligation to approve them and is free to negotiate. If the project doesn't require any then the city has much less leverage.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Postby FISHMANPET » July 13th, 2017, 4:22 pm

If it needs variances there's no room to negotiate, that's not how variances work. If it needs a CUP, that gives the city a little more bargaining power but still not very much. So, for the most part, everything you're asking the city to demand is something the city has no legal basis to demand.

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Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Postby SkyScraperKid » July 13th, 2017, 6:33 pm

SurlyLHT wrote:
July 13th, 2017, 9:08 am
This proposal seems to be part of something larger. Or at least I hope. It doesn't make sense for Thrivent to simply add more parking capacity on this lot, unless it's part of a larger project which will have demands for the parking. Perhaps the skyway connections toward HCMC is a clue to something larger? The hospital and new building with the clinics would make the lot across the street a good location for some sort of Downtown Senior housing...maybe combined with condos or standard apartments to create something tall and notable? Wishful thinking perhaps. Maybe Thrivent is just making up for the parking lost by the ramp the city is taking down.
Yes, I completely agree! It's definitely going to be combined with something VERY tall and VERY notable! Let's keep talking about how tall it is going to be and how notable it will be as well. :D ...On a scale of tall 7 being tall and 10 being very tall I think it's gonna be a 8,12,14. How tall do you think it is going to be Surly? Tall or super tall?

SurlyLHT
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Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Postby SurlyLHT » July 13th, 2017, 7:01 pm

I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. There's potential. Most likely it'll look like the Kraus-Anderson block. Given that United Properties can't get their Nicollet project off the ground and Ryan's office tower on top of the parking ramp hasn't said a peep in awhile the market here doesn't appear to favor the tall or super tall..but the 20 to 30 stories.

BigIdeasGuy
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Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Postby BigIdeasGuy » July 13th, 2017, 7:21 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:
July 13th, 2017, 4:22 pm
If it needs variances there's no room to negotiate, that's not how variances work. If it needs a CUP, that gives the city a little more bargaining power but still not very much. So, for the most part, everything you're asking the city to demand is something the city has no legal basis to demand.
Okay so just say yes even though it's a underwhelming at best?

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Postby FISHMANPET » July 13th, 2017, 7:51 pm

Legally, yes.

There's nothing in the zoning code that says proposals have be a certain level of grandeur. Approving new buildings isn't a policy decision, it's a quasi-judicial decision that the plan meets all applicable zoning codes. If the building is allowed by zoning, the city legally has to approve it. Not doing so can open them to lawsuits.

So if you want better development downtown, we need to make sure our zoning code requires it.

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Postby VacantLuxuries » July 14th, 2017, 7:35 am

And this is why the city should consider purchasing the poorest uses of land downtown and running the bid process themselves. It's expensive upfront, but the potentially lost property tax from a junk building (and lost potential residents/income tax/sales tax etc) adds up over thirty years. They can't do anything when they don't have a stake in it.

mattaudio
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Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Postby mattaudio » July 14th, 2017, 7:51 am

Where's Nasa or June or RetiredBanker when you need them?!?


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