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Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Posted: July 14th, 2017, 8:22 am
by min-chi-cbus
VacantLuxuries wrote:
July 14th, 2017, 7:35 am
And this is why the city should consider purchasing the poorest uses of land downtown and running the bid process themselves. It's expensive upfront, but the potentially lost property tax from a junk building (and lost potential residents/income tax/sales tax etc) adds up over thirty years. They can't do anything when they don't have a stake in it.
I'd love to see that, but I see the taxpayers throwing a fit over that idea.

Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Posted: July 14th, 2017, 8:37 am
by VacantLuxuries
There's ways to get creative with it. For example, if Minneapolis wanted to buy the West Hotel lot, they could make the acquisition more palpable by saying they wanted to ensure part of the parcel would be set aside for a police outpost on Hennepin. It would ensure quality development on a major hole in the entertainment district and shut up the CityPages "People swear in downtown Minneapolis and I don't like it" crowd for a while.

There's still other lots near Thrivent where they could do this too in order to make up for this lot being wasted.

Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Posted: July 14th, 2017, 6:45 pm
by BigIdeasGuy
FISHMANPET wrote:
July 13th, 2017, 7:51 pm
Legally, yes.

There's nothing in the zoning code that says proposals have be a certain level of grandeur. Approving new buildings isn't a policy decision, it's a quasi-judicial decision that the plan meets all applicable zoning codes. If the building is allowed by zoning, the city legally has to approve it. Not doing so can open them to lawsuits.

So if you want better development downtown, we need to make sure our zoning code requires it.
Right but I was referring to the CUP and variance parts. The city has to legal requirement to approve them. At that point the developer can either work with the city and comeback with a better proposal or simply propose something that meets all the zoning requirements.

And I'm against putting grandeur requirements in the zoning code, not because I don't think it would be a good idea or improve the quality of proposals, but because how the hell do you write it and enforce it.

Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Posted: July 15th, 2017, 1:03 pm
by FISHMANPET
No, a variance or a CUP request doesn't give the city full discretion. There are specific legal requirements that need to be met for a variance of a CUP. If the proposal meets those standards, it legally has to be approved. A variance or a CUP don't turn it into a discretionary approval, it's still a quasi judicial decision.

So, again, what you're asking for is not legal, and if the city does what you want, it would probably be sued, and the city would most likely lose.

Which is why the zoning code needs to require the things we want. A minimum FAR for new downtown development would not be a totally crazy idea.

Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Posted: July 15th, 2017, 1:10 pm
by Southside
VacantLuxuries wrote:
July 14th, 2017, 7:35 am
And this is why the city should consider purchasing the poorest uses of land downtown and running the bid process themselves. It's expensive upfront, but the potentially lost property tax from a junk building (and lost potential residents/income tax/sales tax etc) adds up over thirty years. They can't do anything when they don't have a stake in it.
You can't be serious?! So you're proposing that city eminent domains properties that they perceive as undervalued and then auctions them to the market hoping that someone agrees with their valuation. Why wouldn't the owners of these undervalued properties just sell if they were truly undervalued?

The state couldn't pull off eminent domaining 5 houses to build a northbound on ramp at Lake St. How on earth would the city eminent domain anything on the basis that they think it's undervalued?

Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Posted: July 15th, 2017, 4:25 pm
by VacantLuxuries
I didn't say the city should use eminent domain to purchase anything. The city didn't use eminent domain to get ahold of the Kmart block.

Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Posted: July 15th, 2017, 7:44 pm
by Silophant
Right. They could just buy them on the open market when they come up.


Though, the city's attempt at doing exactly this on the gateway lot is... not going great.

Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Posted: July 15th, 2017, 8:08 pm
by VacantLuxuries
I think in the future they need to define their vision better than "iconic," and, unless they tried this and failed, make a proactive effort to put the request in front of developers from out of town.

It could be going better. But if the plans for the United building fall through, at least we aren't stuck with something horrible on an important city lot.

Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Posted: July 17th, 2017, 8:49 am
by amiller92
Southside wrote:
July 15th, 2017, 1:10 pm
Why wouldn't the owners of these undervalued properties just sell if they were truly undervalued?
Well, one possibility is that they are cash flow positive in the current use (e.g., parking) so the owner is willing to wait for even more money in the future.

Which is not to say that eminent domain is a workable option.

Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Posted: July 17th, 2017, 2:38 pm
by ndokken

Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Posted: July 17th, 2017, 8:33 pm
by HiawathaGuy
There's nothing really new in this article.

“We’ve determined that now is the time to optimize the value of this property for our members,” Randy Boushek, chief financial officer at Thrivent, said in an e-mailed statement .“With the rapid development of East Town, the neighborhood surrounding U.S. Bank Stadium, we decided the time was right to get the greatest value by selling the surface parking lots for development for a different purpose. Creating a new parking solution for our employees is a top priority and is the next step in the process.”

Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Posted: August 24th, 2017, 12:57 pm
by SurlyLHT
The packet for our favorite parking ramp. Plenty of details, but nothing super new. It is clear however, that the purpose of the ramp is to free up space for the other two lots.

http://minneapolismn.gov/www/groups/pub ... 204186.pdf

Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Posted: August 24th, 2017, 2:41 pm
by HiawathaGuy
Developers update plan for a bigger residential, parking complex on Thrivent lot in downtown Minneapolis
http://www.startribune.com/developers-u ... 441664833/

Now 6 stories, with a possible mix of apartments and condos, along with integrated Metro Transit shelters.

Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Posted: August 24th, 2017, 3:18 pm
by EOst
EOst wrote:
July 12th, 2017, 2:06 pm
I'd be okay if it just covered the top two levels of the parking ramp.
They met half of my wish list.

Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Posted: August 28th, 2017, 3:14 pm
by TwinCitiesNative
Minneapolis is on the verge of a housing crisis and we're proposing building a six-story apartment building around a parking garage in the center of Downtown Minneapolis...

Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Posted: August 28th, 2017, 3:37 pm
by MNdible
TwinCitiesNative wrote:
August 28th, 2017, 3:14 pm
Minneapolis is on the verge of a housing crisis and we're proposing building a six-story apartment building around a parking garage in the center of Downtown Minneapolis...
No, actually none of us are proposing it. The people that own the land are.

Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Posted: August 29th, 2017, 8:31 am
by Southside
TwinCitiesNative wrote:
August 28th, 2017, 3:14 pm
Minneapolis is on the verge of a housing crisis and we're proposing building a six-story apartment building around a parking garage in the center of Downtown Minneapolis...
Housing crisis? What on earth are you talking about? Minneapolis has less than a 2% annual growth rate. 6-story apartment buildings wrapping parking ramps can easily add enough new housing to cover that.

Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Posted: August 29th, 2017, 8:53 am
by grant1simons2

Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Posted: August 29th, 2017, 9:14 am
by VacantLuxuries
Follow the money. Lenders being unnecessarily stingy and/or timid is almost certainly at fault here.

Re: Thrivent's Surface Parking Lots

Posted: August 29th, 2017, 10:04 am
by David Greene
VacantLuxuries wrote:
August 29th, 2017, 9:14 am
Follow the money. Lenders being unnecessarily stingy and/or timid is almost certainly at fault here.
Pull together some funds and make it happen! There's a killing to be made in residential loans! It's a slam dunk!