T3 - Hines Dock Street Office Project

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HiawathaGuy
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T3 - Hines Dock Street Office Project

Postby HiawathaGuy » November 5th, 2014, 2:35 pm

New Hines development looks on tap immediately south of Dock Street Flats.
Locked story:

Hines pitching timber office building for North Loop
Image
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Last edited by HiawathaGuy on November 5th, 2014, 2:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

mullen
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Re: T3

Postby mullen » November 5th, 2014, 2:38 pm

this is cool. it's speculative office and it's all wood.

maxbaby
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Re: T3

Postby maxbaby » November 5th, 2014, 2:47 pm


HiawathaGuy
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Re: T3 - Hines Dock Street Office Project

Postby HiawathaGuy » November 5th, 2014, 2:59 pm

Very cool indeed!

"Houston-based Hines will start going through the city's economic development process with the Heritage Preservation Commission next week.

The developer plans to break ground on the 210,000-square-foot building in the spring, Hines Director Bob Pfefferle said in an interview Tuesday. He declined to discuss construction or development costs, but said Hines has secured the necessary financing.

Hines is calling the project T3 for the three elements that are key to the site: timber, transit and technology, Pfefferle said."

twincitizen
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Re: T3 - Hines Dock Street Office Project

Postby twincitizen » November 5th, 2014, 3:39 pm

This project coming to the fore would be a great springboard to directly engage Jacob Frey (and Hines) on the idea of eventually tearing down the 3rd/4th Street viaducts. Not to change this project or anything near term, but to start a *public* conversation about it. We urbanists talk about it. Streets.mn & MinnPost have written about it. I'm sure folks like Lisa Bender and Jacob Frey have thought about it. There hasn't yet been a public conversation about removal and setting a timeline and conditions for that to happen. IT NEEDS TO HAPPEN. That begins with convincing city leaders like David Frank (CPED staff) and elected officials like Jacob Frey. Removal of those viaducts must become written into City of Minneapolis policy before they can begin lobbying MNDOT to plan for the eventual removal. Clearly this is something that won't actually happen for another 10-15 years, but it's time to get it in writing.

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Re: T3 - Hines Dock Street Office Project

Postby MNdible » November 5th, 2014, 3:51 pm

I understand the desire to remove the viaducts through the North Loop, but don't the viaducts really need to stay in this stretch (over the trench)? In addition to a significant change in elevation, they're also crossing a very active freight line, a passenger rail station, and the tail of 394.

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Re: T3 - Hines Dock Street Office Project

Postby nBode » November 5th, 2014, 4:10 pm

Idea: Bring the viaducts down to grade to connect at N 6th Ave. Demolish from 6th to 10th and make a linear park for North Loop. Reconnect on/off-ramps at N 10th Ave, or at N 12th Ave (reconnect 12th). Utilize 2 viaduct lanes over the rail trench for bike/pedestrian/green connection.

EDIT: This is technically off-topic. It could/should be moved to General North Loop, eh?

John
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Re: T3 - Hines Dock Street Office Project

Postby John » November 5th, 2014, 6:36 pm

This project is by the Vancouver architect Michael Green. If I remember correctly he has made quite a name for himself as an innovator of timber frame construction, and a proponent of high-rise wood construction. Fun he's going to design something here! Perfect fit for the North Loop.

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Re: T3 - Hines Dock Street Office Project

Postby FISHMANPET » November 5th, 2014, 8:29 pm

I'm curious if this is going to be standard six stick, or something different. If nothing else, calling it "timber" construction makes me think more of an old Warehouse in the Warehouse district than it does one of our new apartments.

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Re: T3 - Hines Dock Street Office Project

Postby John » November 5th, 2014, 9:48 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:I'm curious if this is going to be standard six stick, or something different. If nothing else, calling it "timber" construction makes me think more of an old Warehouse in the Warehouse district than it does one of our new apartments.
Not an expert , but I think they are going to use a very modern wood technology for this building which is different from the wood used for the usual stick. I know they make engineered laminated timber products now that are extremely strong and fire resistant. There have been some skyscrapers proposed using this material as the support structure. The architect has a strong interest in this wood building material (Glulam). This is likely what they are going to use for this project.

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Re: T3 - Hines Dock Street Office Project

Postby seanrichardryan » November 5th, 2014, 10:13 pm

Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

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Re: T3 - Hines Dock Street Office Project

Postby mister.shoes » November 5th, 2014, 10:41 pm

FMP, the photo gallery (and text) of the Biz Journals article is pretty clear that this is going to be *nothing* like standard stick construction. It sounds like one of the coolest new buildings MPLS has seen in a while.

Image
The building would a have 12-foot ceilings with exposed wooden beams, designed to feel like the inside of century-old warehouse buildings in the North Loop today.
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Re: T3 - Hines Dock Street Office Project

Postby nBode » November 6th, 2014, 7:56 am

Strib:
To handle T3’s design, Hines turned to one of the world’s foremost experts on heavy timber construction, Michael Green Architecture of Vancouver, the firm responsible for the world’s tallest modern all-timber structure, the Wood Innovation Design Centre in British Columbia.
The Wood Innovation Design Center is apparently only 90 feet tall. It seems possible T3 could potentially top that, which would be fun.

Architorture
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Re: T3 - Hines Dock Street Office Project

Postby Architorture » November 6th, 2014, 8:47 am

The design looks great! They are going to need some political help to get this through the Mpls code officials. They are really going to need to work the bonuses for type 4 heavy timber construction - 5 stories/65', sprinkler bonus can get you to 6 stories/85'. They already hate the 5 story wood buildings that we are seeing every where.

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Re: T3 - Hines Dock Street Office Project

Postby mattaudio » November 6th, 2014, 9:49 am

Yeah this looks more like an oversized pole building made with microlams. I like!

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Re: T3 - Hines Dock Street Office Project

Postby topher hoefer » November 6th, 2014, 12:23 pm

Check out that map... I'm dying to know what they mean by "North Loop Green - Future Phase" in the space between this and the baseball stadium. Please please please be a housing TOWER.

twincitizen
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Re: T3 - Hines Dock Street Office Project

Postby twincitizen » November 6th, 2014, 12:40 pm

That would be this spec office tower: https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=61

It's presumably on hold at the moment, as there hasn't been a peep in a couple years, and now they're building office in this location instead. This site where T3 is going, for those that don't know, was most recently discussed as a 25-story apartment building (and before that as a 16-story apartment building). I'm not sure why Hines decided to change gears and go with office here instead of residential.

This story from Oct. 2013 talks about the 25-story apartment building that is now obviously cancelled (or perhaps shifted to the 350 N 5th site...who knows): http://tcbmag.com/News/Recent-News/2013 ... er-Planned

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Re: T3 - Hines Dock Street Office Project

Postby John » November 6th, 2014, 3:03 pm

twincitizen wrote: I'm not sure why Hines decided to change gears and go with office here instead of residential.
Hasn't there been growing demand for office space in the North Loop? This project appears to be catering to the needs of these smaller, young, but growing tech/creative companies that want to be in the North Loop.

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Re: T3 - Hines Dock Street Office Project

Postby Archiapolis » November 7th, 2014, 7:28 am

John wrote:This project is by the Vancouver architect Michael Green. If I remember correctly he has made quite a name for himself as an innovator of timber frame construction, and a proponent of high-rise wood construction. Fun he's going to design something here! Perfect fit for the North Loop.
This is great news from a design and material investigation standpoint. This building technology is innovative (for North America) and it is exciting for us to be pursuing it.

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Re: T3 - Hines Dock Street Office Project

Postby Archiapolis » November 7th, 2014, 7:33 am

Architorture wrote:The design looks great! They are going to need some political help to get this through the Mpls code officials. They are really going to need to work the bonuses for type 4 heavy timber construction - 5 stories/65', sprinkler bonus can get you to 6 stories/85'. They already hate the 5 story wood buildings that we are seeing every where.
Yo, you know this is CLT right?

Stick frame code doesn't really apply to this building material - the flame spread rating and other measures of combustibility are different for this stuff. The theory is that you can't start a giant log on fire with a match because it is so dense and massive relative to the match. I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin:

http://www.woodworks.org/design-with-wo ... stems-clt/


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