The Commons - Downtown East Park

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
Wedgeguy
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Re: Downtown East - Wells Fargo / Radisson Red / Edition Apt

Postby Wedgeguy » September 14th, 2015, 9:40 pm

Traffic with Portland and Park close was a beautiful cluster F*CK. Have not seen so many pissed off drivers in my life. Wonderful rush hour gridlock as I was walking though the area. That was at just before 4, can't imagine what it was like around 4:30 to 6 in that area.

grant1simons2
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby grant1simons2 » September 15th, 2015, 9:20 am

http://www.startribune.com/hennepin-cou ... 327604131/

This is good to see. It really solidifies Frey and Benders request to re-write the park agreement for the Commons.

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Re: Downtown East - Wells Fargo / Radisson Red / Edition Apt

Postby nickmgray » September 15th, 2015, 9:25 am

Wedgeguy wrote:Traffic with Portland and Park close was a beautiful cluster F*CK. Have not seen so many pissed off drivers in my life. Wonderful rush hour gridlock as I was walking though the area. That was at just before 4, can't imagine what it was like around 4:30 to 6 in that area.
Noticed that as well. It was worse than usual as Chicago Ave is closed as well and there's not that many options to get across this massive construction zone.

Wedgeguy
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby Wedgeguy » September 15th, 2015, 12:16 pm

Looking like the only part of the Trib building left up is the main area around the main entrance. Looks like they are trying to salvage the dark granite from around the front doors. I would expect that this will be down by the end of the week. Then to get things leveled off before winter. Not sure if they will be able to get any of the replacement trees planted this fall or if that will all have to wait until spring.

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Nathan
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Re: Downtown East - Wells Fargo / Radisson Red / Edition Apt

Postby Nathan » September 15th, 2015, 3:14 pm

Yes but this is when people are still using those roads by habit. If it were closed for an extended period of time it would be avoided.

VikingFaninMaryland
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Re: Downtown East - Wells Fargo / Radisson Red / Edition Apt

Postby VikingFaninMaryland » September 15th, 2015, 3:37 pm

Nathan wrote:Yes but this is when people are still using those roads by habit. If it were closed for an extended period of time it would be avoided.
My understanding is that Hennepin County veto'd closing the roads due to ingress/egress issues relating to emergency medical services at HCMC.

acs
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Re: Downtown East - Wells Fargo / Radisson Red / Edition Apt

Postby acs » September 15th, 2015, 3:52 pm

VikingFaninMaryland wrote:
Nathan wrote:Yes but this is when people are still using those roads by habit. If it were closed for an extended period of time it would be avoided.
My understanding is that Hennepin County veto'd closing the roads due to ingress/egress issues relating to emergency medical services at HCMC.
I recently emailed Commissioner Green to advocate for this, here was his response on why they can't yet.
Thanks for the note – you are not the only person who has written about this topic.

I agree with you – almost. Unfortunately there are some hurdles. A couple things –
1. The county actually did do a study on this question, traffic counts, etc. Closing that block of Portland Avenue would have significant traffic implications for the city.

2. If Minneapolis were keen to do this, they would ask for ownership of Portland Avenue between Washington Avenue and the next county road (Franklin Avenue? I’m not remembering off the top of my head) in order to make this happen. I am not aware of that level of interest.

3. The whole path forward for the park is a little unclear - who builds, who maintains, who owns, etc., which complicates advocating for the street closure.


Sorry it's not looking more hopeful!

My best,
Marion

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Nathan
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Re: Downtown East - Wells Fargo / Radisson Red / Edition Apt

Postby Nathan » September 15th, 2015, 3:53 pm

I was responding directly to the idea that if traffic was bad one day with construction, it would always be bad. i know the reasons officials don't want to do it.

intercomnut
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Re: Downtown East - Wells Fargo / Radisson Red / Edition Apt

Postby intercomnut » September 15th, 2015, 4:01 pm

Related story: riding the light rail now and just a few minutes ago we had to stop leaving DTE westbound because cars on Park were blocking the box. I've never had that happen before!

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Re: Downtown East - Wells Fargo / Radisson Red / Edition Apt

Postby Rich » September 15th, 2015, 4:21 pm

Park Ave is also closed at the moment. So that bit of congestion is actually not related to the Portland closure.

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Re: Downtown East - Wells Fargo / Radisson Red / Edition Apt

Postby Wedgeguy » September 15th, 2015, 7:59 pm

The case in point is that there are 3 roads in a row that are closed at various points between 5th and 3rd going north south. Chicago by the stadium. Park is narrowed by the Strib building that is being torn down, and also between the WF east and the MSFA ramp Park is closed. Also Portland is closed between 3rd and 5th. This is pushing traffic to already congested streets. So if we think that people will find other routes that only means that they will be causing more congestion on other streets DT.
Cars who make the mistake of turning on Portland now have to drive to 4th, 3rd, or second to now go south from Washington or 3rd. Most of those streets are semi full with their own traffic as it is. They have to go that way because they are on a one way street heading west when they have to turn when they reach the road closed on Portland.

acs
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Re: Downtown East - Wells Fargo / Radisson Red / Edition Apt

Postby acs » September 15th, 2015, 8:50 pm

Is traffic worse? Sure. Is it carpocalypse? Is the world ending? are people finding other routes? No, no, yes. I'd say it's worth it and let's make it permanent.

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Re: Downtown East - Wells Fargo / Radisson Red / Edition Apt

Postby mnmike » September 15th, 2015, 10:05 pm

acs wrote:Is traffic worse? Sure. Is it carpocalypse? Is the world ending? are people finding other routes? No, no, yes. I'd say it's worth it and let's make it permanent.
Umm, actually the traffic the past couple days is about as bad as I have ever seen...comparable to a vikings game day or big event. So...pretty much bordering on carpocalypse. I was pretty impressed, well not sure if impressed is the right word, with how bad it was. Surprised? Almost shocked? Literally every street seemed to be jammed. Have you seen it? It also has to do with 7th street being down a couple lanes and several other streets with construction. What a mess!

In summation I would say, was traffic worse? Yes. Beyond shrug it off worse.... far beyond. But like I say, there are many street/lane closures contributing.

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Re: Downtown East - Wells Fargo / Radisson Red / Edition Apt

Postby grant1simons2 » September 15th, 2015, 10:16 pm

I'm passing everyone in the bus and on my bike. It's fine.

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Re: Downtown East - Wells Fargo / Radisson Red / Edition Apt

Postby mnmike » September 15th, 2015, 10:39 pm

I was happily on foot...but still would say it has been far from "fine" the past couple days. Very noticeably different. Not sure how it can be downplayed. I think the new closures over by the old Strib building must have just been the tipping point in what has already been a very messy time for the surface streets (La Salle reconstruction, Nic utility work on cross streets and bus re routes, and some other lane closures). Up until the past few days I would say traffic has been going pretty well (or fine) all things considered. And it will be again when every intersection isn't under construction! (yes, that is an exaggeration)

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Re: Downtown East - Wells Fargo / Radisson Red / Edition Apt

Postby Archiapolis » September 16th, 2015, 7:18 am

mnmike wrote:I was happily on foot...but still would say it has been far from "fine" the past couple days. Very noticeably different. Not sure how it can be downplayed. I think the new closures over by the old Strib building must have just been the tipping point in what has already been a very messy time for the surface streets (La Salle reconstruction, Nic utility work on cross streets and bus re routes, and some other lane closures). Up until the past few days I would say traffic has been going pretty well (or fine) all things considered. And it will be again when every intersection isn't under construction! (yes, that is an exaggeration)
From the posts here it seems like it is impossible to evaluate "the closure of Portland" because so many streets around it are closed or have lanes closed. There are too many other variables affecting the traffic that it isn't isolated enough to evaluate as a single street/block.

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Re: Downtown East - Wells Fargo / Radisson Red / Edition Apt

Postby PhilmerPhil » September 16th, 2015, 7:21 am

Also, let's give people a week or so to adjust their travel habits. The first few days are naturally going to be a bit rough.

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Re: Downtown East - Wells Fargo / Radisson Red / Edition Apt

Postby HiawathaGuy » September 16th, 2015, 8:00 am

Just checked the webcam for the stadium and it looks as though there are no backups on any of the above-mentioned roads, at 8:58am. Not that I don't doubt that traffic is heavy during rush hour. I would also say that in the grand scheme of things - it's not a complete cluster 24/7. And as stated, with a natural 'learning' curve, the area could and would be fine I'm sure.

Much like when the 35W bridge collapsed and people needed to learn a new path. It wasn't pleasant, but it wasn't the end of the world. Hopefully Portland can some day be closed, permanently. Once the park and surrounding area are a beautifully bustling node of activity.

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Re: Downtown East - Wells Fargo / Radisson Red / Edition Apt

Postby mnmike » September 16th, 2015, 10:46 am

The AM has been fine...its the evenings that have been gridlock for whatever reason.

Arch: Agreed.

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Re: Downtown East - Wells Fargo / Radisson Red / Edition Apt

Postby xandrex » September 16th, 2015, 3:04 pm

Wedgeguy wrote:Traffic with Portland and Park close was a beautiful cluster F*CK. Have not seen so many pissed off drivers in my life. Wonderful rush hour gridlock as I was walking though the area. That was at just before 4, can't imagine what it was like around 4:30 to 6 in that area.
Was going through this area on Monday and it was a real cluster. That said, some of that was the really, really bad signage. It wasn't made particularly clear which roads were closed. I had been picked up by a family member as we were heading to an event right after work and we ended up having to circle around downtown to get going the right direction. As a bus commuter, I definitely wasn't expecting what we ran into.


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