The Commons - Downtown East Park

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
grant1simons2
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby grant1simons2 » February 25th, 2015, 11:03 am

That's what the plan is sounding like. They want to find a way to integrate the streets into the park scape.

Silophant
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby Silophant » February 25th, 2015, 11:48 am

I'm wondering if the phased nature of the project might help us here. If we could get significant calming for the interim park (2016), and, over the next year, carmageddon fails to occur, that would presumably make it politically easier to go big and close the roads entirely for the ultimate park (2018).

twincitizen
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby twincitizen » February 25th, 2015, 12:06 pm

I think the interim park is literally just going to be Ryan Companies laying down sod after they remove the Strib building and asphalt. That will happen long before this planning process is complete or any further funding has been identified for the actual park.

I'm actually a bit wary of the timeline to get the "real" non-temporary park open by late 2017, in time for the Superbowl. Not only is that a really aggressive timeline for planning and construction, but it worries me that the park will be overly geared toward meeting the needs of that one event. Given that concern, I'd rather we just left the damn thing as plain sod until after the Superbowl hoopla leaves town. Let's build the real park in spring 2018.

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TommyT
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby TommyT » February 25th, 2015, 12:13 pm

Might as well, aren't they going to cover it with a giant tent anyway?

sushisimo
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby sushisimo » February 25th, 2015, 12:56 pm

“What we’re really doing is triggering memories,” said Council Member Jacob Frey, whose ward 3 includes the park. “In 10 years time, I want to talk to ... someone who says, ‘You know, 10 years ago I was over on that bench making out furiously with your mother before you were born.’”

:lol: Who would say that to their kid <9 years old? That guy, reign him in.

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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby PhilmerPhil » February 25th, 2015, 1:00 pm

I just send CM Frey a quick email suggesting a temporary closure of Park/Portland this summer for a couple weeks to take a look at traffic patterns. As Lisa Bender stated today at the meet & greet with the new bike/ped coordinator, city staff can be resistant to change. It took years to get them to open up to the idea of Open Streets, and pilot projects like this, or the parklet pilot project, are great ways to test the waters before diving into a permanent solution.

acs
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby acs » February 25th, 2015, 1:06 pm

Strib article on the issue of the streets and the park, including renderings:

http://www.startribune.com/local/blogs/294059931.html

This doesn't go nearly far enough IMO.

lordmoke
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby lordmoke » February 25th, 2015, 1:11 pm

Glad to see that they plan to push the 5th St curb all the way out to the LRT tracks, eliminating that stupid traffic lane.

Three lanes is too many though. They've got to be able to go down to two.

xandrex
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby xandrex » February 25th, 2015, 1:33 pm

^As far as I can tell, 5th isn't changing. The plans I see all include the drive lane.

mattaudio
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby mattaudio » February 25th, 2015, 1:40 pm

Exactly. No reason for that, given that 6th will now have a westbound lane and StarTribune's parking lot / loading dock (the only vehicular accesses to the north half of 5th) are disappearing.

twincitizen
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby twincitizen » February 25th, 2015, 1:40 pm

*clicks on article*
*sees there is one comment*
*bets self that it is mattaudio and includes some variation of "these are streets, not roads!"*

#bingo

mattaudio
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby mattaudio » February 25th, 2015, 2:15 pm

But persistence is paying off... the likes keep adding up. We're changing people's minds.

HiawathaGuy
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby HiawathaGuy » February 25th, 2015, 4:31 pm

I like that Frey talks about wanting to close Portland in the Strib article too.

acs
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby acs » February 25th, 2015, 5:40 pm

I also wish that they could move the entrance to the underground LRT ramp to 4th street so that the area facing the park could be smoothed out and made more welcoming between the stadium and park.

twincitizen
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby twincitizen » February 26th, 2015, 7:16 am

xandrex wrote:^As far as I can tell, 5th isn't changing. The plans I see all include the drive lane.
There are currently two drive lanes on 5th St in this area, to either side of the tracks. The images in the Strib story show the park-side lane going away. The lane on the south side of 5th St would remain.

EDIT: Also, I do think on street parking is important to have, on at least one side of the park. There won't be any on 5th St or Portland (since we want to narrow it as much as possible). The right (third) lane of 4th Street needs to be on-street parking, maybe except for 4-6pm M-F (like Marquette, 1st Ave N, etc.) EDIT2: It actually appears this is the case today, on the Strib parking lot block. But we'll need to add on-street parking to the right lane of the Strib building block, so that'll be something to keep in mind moving forward.

Archiapolis
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby Archiapolis » February 26th, 2015, 9:27 am

mattaudio wrote:But persistence is paying off... the likes keep adding up. We're changing people's minds.
FFS, CLOSE PORTLAND! I can't believe this is even a discussion. I worked in this area for years and car traffic is so minimal, it's not even worth discussing. Two turns for an ambulance or fire truck are the difference between life and death? I propose a motion to put a hospital and fire department on every corner!

MillCityTimes
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby MillCityTimes » February 26th, 2015, 9:52 am

For those who couldn't make it (and have time to watch:-), here's video of the entire meeting, broken up into two clips:

Presentation by the design team:
http://youtu.be/PCDiXkpWoEw?list=PLu0z5 ... l0WwUyxzAF

Public input on what the park should be:
http://youtu.be/lE5XjMcfqmw?list=PLu0z5 ... l0WwUyxzAF

A review of the meeting itself, includes both vids:
http://millcitytimes.com/opinion/downto ... start.html
David Tinjum
Mill City Times
http://MillCityTimes.com

xandrex
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby xandrex » February 26th, 2015, 12:37 pm

twincitizen wrote:
xandrex wrote:^As far as I can tell, 5th isn't changing. The plans I see all include the drive lane.
There are currently two drive lanes on 5th St in this area, to either side of the tracks. The images in the Strib story show the park-side lane going away. The lane on the south side of 5th St would remain.
Yeah, noticed this after I posted. I knew there was a drive lane on each side of the tracks, but because of how the diagram was set up, it tricked my eyes into thinking the space between the tracks and park was wider - like still car-lane wide.

I'm glad that lane is going away, but it really does make 5th even less useful since it will essentially serve two parking garages and provide no access to the north of downtown/river/Mill District. I hate using urbanist buzzwords, but this makes it seem like a pretty prime candidate for woonerf-ization, no?

David Greene
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby David Greene » February 26th, 2015, 4:24 pm

xandrex wrote:I'm glad that lane is going away, but it really does make 5th even less useful since it will essentially serve two parking garages and provide no access to the north of downtown/river/Mill District. I hate using urbanist buzzwords, but this makes it seem like a pretty prime candidate for woonerf-ization, no?
Not with a train I'd wager. Imagine the delays to LRT.

Really 5th St. should just be closed to vehicular traffic from Chicago to 5th Ave. since as soon as the exit ramp moves to 7th almost no one will be on it. Which two parking garages need access?

xandrex
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby xandrex » February 26th, 2015, 6:42 pm

I suppose I was referring to the now general traffic lane and sidewalk on the southern edge that could potentially become pedestrianized. Once the park is open, it will provide no access toward the Mill District, and will only be useful for turning south on Portland and 4th Avenue, plus a few parking garage: the Armory, Government Center, and the one next to it (is it part of the same complex? I don't know). Given that there is always some chatter about the Armory changing into something less car-storage oriented, the reasons for 5th even existing east of Government Plaza Station are getting smaller and smaller.


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