West Loop / Farmers Market / Royalston Station

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
mattaudio
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West Loop / Farmers Market / Royalston Station

Postby mattaudio » March 25th, 2015, 11:16 am

I figure we could have some discussion here that's broader than just the soccer stadium.

I'd love to see stronger connections between the West Loop and the North Loop, CBD, Loring Park, and Sumner-Glenwood. If there's any public contribution towards the stadium proposal, I hope it is with these ends in mind. In a perfect world, I'm convinced the stadium would go closer to 94. Even if done right, the proposed stadium location will likely create even more of a wall between DT/NL and the land to the west of it.

I'm convinced the 94/Olson diamond interchange needs reimagining. As well as the 7th/Olson/Royalston mess. The entire thing needs reimagining, and we have a huge opportunity here with Bottineau and SWLRT. In an ideal world, we could actually build partially on air rights over I-94 towards the pond in the middle of Van White Blvd, if we were able to somehow depress/reconfigure the flyover ramp from Olson to eastbound 94. Barring that, the stadium should be sandwiched up against 94 as much as possible to maximize the development potential between it and the LRT/downtown.

Here's something I wrote last year about the concept of reconnecting this neighborhood by strengthening the grid. https://streets.mn/2014/06/12/reconnecti ... royalston/
Last edited by mattaudio on March 25th, 2015, 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

Didier
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Re: West Loop Neighborhood

Postby Didier » March 25th, 2015, 11:19 am

Sadly, it will be interesting to see how Vikings stadium politics plays into this. Because it looks like it's going to.

twincitizen
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Re: West Loop Neighborhood

Postby twincitizen » March 25th, 2015, 11:42 am

I agree completely on the stadium location. It should be pushed up against the freeway to
a. provide an audio/visual buffer from the freeway
b. allow the rest of the neighborhood to properly develop

I just don't see how in the hell anything gets built in the shadows between the proposed stadium location on Royalston and the freeway viaduct. That parcel (GK business) will never become anything worthwhile and we probably would just leave the Farmers Market in its present location.

Best case scenario would actually put the stadium on the Farmers Market site, bound by 94/Glenwood & realigned Border Ave. I'd actually prefer the SWLRT station to be as close to Glenwood as possible too. Like as soon as the LRT rises out of the RR cut and crosses Glenwood, have the station there. People transferring from buses 5/19/22 could make that transfer at Twins Way/Glenwood instead of 7th/Olson.

Another consideration regarding the streets would be to eliminate Royalston as a thoroughfare, having it curve over to a slightly realigned Holden/Border Ave (which then of course meets Olson as it does today, just without the frontage roads)

min-chi-cbus
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Re: West Loop Neighborhood

Postby min-chi-cbus » March 25th, 2015, 2:00 pm

I can't even begin to imagine how to transform this area, but it's a compelling thought! Great article, btw, Matt!! The sooner that this area's street system can be restored to a network-connected grid, the sooner development will likely follow.

acs
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Re: West Loop Neighborhood

Postby acs » March 25th, 2015, 2:39 pm

New strib article about the area. Interview with the Vegitable Grower's association which saw renderings Monday night had a few hints:
Association spokeswoman Sandy Hill said his vision involved a modernized Farmers Market and an indoor restaurant concept beside the stadium similar to Eataly in Chigago – which would feed off food from the farmers market. It also included parking ramps, she said.

“It still had our three remaining sheds, but more glorified to fit with the modernness of the whole design," Hill said
There's just never enough parking downtown :roll:

http://www.startribune.com/local/blogs/297558791.html

twincitizen
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Re: West Loop Neighborhood

Postby twincitizen » March 25th, 2015, 2:47 pm

If the stadium cannot be built in that location without utilizing existing parking infrastructure, then it is being built in the wrong location. Move it further south, closer to Ramp A if fans arriving by automobile cannot walk that far. Of course I expect there to be a small VIP/ADA parking lot immediately adjacent to the stadium, but as for building any substantial parking facility? Absolutely not.

That July deadline is gonna come quick, so I hope the team owners are meeting with Minneapolis (Farmers Market & Public Works facility), Hennepin County, Met Council (SWLRT), and MNDOT to put their heads together and figure out how to make this all work. It's not a huge area, but it would be a damn shame if the various moving pieces are being planned in silos. The exact stadium location, the farmers market, SWLRT station, pedestrian improvements and street calming/reconfiguration: it has to be one big plan, not 4 separate ones.

grant1simons2
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Re: West Loop Neighborhood

Postby grant1simons2 » March 25th, 2015, 2:50 pm

I'm very spectacle about this project. And now they want to add parking ramps? Hmm. Did some quick measurements. From A to C ramp it's about 1/4 of a mile. From A ramp to where the closest corner of the proposed stadium location is 1/4 mile... C'mon

We're already spelling out failure :/

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Re: West Loop Neighborhood

Postby Nathan » March 25th, 2015, 2:55 pm

I don't personally think a ramp is a mistake. Anymore than the one at 729 Washington. If this area is to densify it'll need parking. It's not an easy neighborhood to get in and out of and there is still a lot of land to develop into apartments or office or what ever. We don't even know how large or anything yet.

xandrex
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Re: West Loop Neighborhood

Postby xandrex » March 25th, 2015, 3:03 pm

A lot of news site and the like are talking about the "West Loop" and its redevelopment, but I'm wondering how much actual redevelopment potential there is.

Obviously there's a lot of industrial, but the entire "West Loop" is just...not all that large. Once you take up the space for the stadium, the farmers market (and any expansion like the "Eataly" being proposed), and the Mary's place, we're looking at a handful of parcels. Throw in any green space or structured parking and you've got maybe a few small blocks to maybe put some development on.

MinnMonkey
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Re: West Loop Neighborhood

Postby MinnMonkey » March 25th, 2015, 3:09 pm

Could this ramp be more for the Farmers Market? Parking is pretty tight down there on weekends.

mullen
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Re: West Loop Neighborhood

Postby mullen » March 25th, 2015, 3:19 pm

as much as i love soccer i came away from that news conference shrugging my shoulders. this ownership has a self imposed or league imposed july 1 deadline to have stadium finalized. dr mcguire mentions having a stadium dialog with the community when a question is posed about public money. this is the BS wordiness of a tone deaf person. good luck with that.
they just should have come and laid their plans at this press conference. now we're looking at months ofbackroom talks, politiking in the news media and the usual crap that we've had to endure for 15 years regarding stadiums.

i really want this to happen and see this part of town fully realized as a destination but given what was said today i'm not convinced of anything. you have three of the richest families in minnesota involved in this ownership group. i see anything more than upgraded streets/sidewalks from any govt entity, state/city/county as a non-starter.

neat site, next to the market and adjacent a future southwest rail station. my dad used to work in the warehouse that sat on the mary's place site for decades. the snowboy sign is all that's left of that warehouse.

xandrex
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Re: West Loop Neighborhood

Postby xandrex » March 25th, 2015, 3:22 pm

mullen wrote:they just should have come and laid their plans at this press conference. now we're looking at months ofbackroom talks, politiking in the news media and the usual crap that we've had to endure for 15 years regarding stadiums.
But this offers an upper hand: You've given the people good news. They're excited. Now if government won't come through, MLS can shrug their shoulders and say, "Contact your rep. We need your support!" And suddenly you've got the Dark Clouds support group doing pretty much what the Vikings fanatics did over their stadium debacle.

(But the soccer-specific stuff should probably go in the other thread)

acs
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Re: West Loop Neighborhood

Postby acs » March 25th, 2015, 3:27 pm

xandrex wrote:
mullen wrote:they just should have come and laid their plans at this press conference. now we're looking at months ofbackroom talks, politiking in the news media and the usual crap that we've had to endure for 15 years regarding stadiums.
But this offers an upper hand: You've given the people good news. They're excited. Now if government won't come through, MLS can shrug their shoulders and say, "Contact your rep. We need your support!" And suddenly you've got the Dark Clouds support group doing pretty much what the Vikings fanatics did over their stadium debacle.

(But the soccer-specific stuff should probably go in the other thread)
You are vastly overestimating the appeal of MLS here and the lobbying power of MN United supporters. From everything I've seen the immediate reaction from most people has been something like "oh, that's kind of cool I guess. If they want us to pay for the stadium though, fuck 'em. Why can't they play in the vikings stadium again?"

Go to the ESPN homepage right now, do you see a single story about MLS' announcement? Nope. Even the cricket world cup get's more coverage here.

Didier
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Re: West Loop Neighborhood

Postby Didier » March 25th, 2015, 3:43 pm

Minnesota United is partly to blame for not laying out a clear narrative, but to this point there's no clear indication that the team will ask for a direct stadium subsidy.

And if it ends up being say $30 million worth of infrastructure and tax breaks from Minneapolis/Hennepin County, that's a much different animal than $500 million coming from the entire state.

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Re: West Loop Neighborhood

Postby MNdible » March 25th, 2015, 4:16 pm

mullen wrote:dr mcguire mentions having a stadium dialog with the community when a question is posed about public money. this is the BS wordiness of a tone deaf person. good luck with that.
Normally to get that effect, you have to hire Lester Bagley.

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Re: West Loop Neighborhood

Postby Mikey » March 25th, 2015, 4:41 pm

Personally, I'd like to see (North to south, between Royalston & Border):
1) A horseshoe shaped stadium with a supporters section / beer garden in the open south end

2) A relocated / expanded farmers market between an extended Cesar Chavez and 3rd Ave, also serving as a game day plaza

3) The "Eataly" / indoor market between 3rd and Holden, with Border extended south to meet Glenwood

Follow that up with apartments / retail along the west side of Border, with any parking ramps built up along Lyndale.

Reconfigure Royalston and 6th Ave to intersect 7th St as a single intersection just west of the planned LRT tracks

Make Olson Mem turn into 7th Street - eliminate 7th between Olson and Oak Lake (or just leave a NB lane to act as an oversized porkchop between Olson and Oak Lake

Longer term, reconnecting Cesar Chavez / 4th Ave over / under I-94, more mixed use between Royalston and Mary's Place
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grant1simons2
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Re: West Loop Neighborhood

Postby grant1simons2 » March 25th, 2015, 4:45 pm

#PieInTheSki

Image

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Munch'n
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Re: West Loop Neighborhood

Postby Munch'n » March 25th, 2015, 4:51 pm

grant1simons2 wrote:#PieInTheSki

Image
Not cool, that's bogus as hell. This building keeps me awake at night. :lol:
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xandrex
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Re: West Loop Neighborhood

Postby xandrex » March 25th, 2015, 7:34 pm

acs wrote:You are vastly overestimating the appeal of MLS here and the lobbying power of MN United supporters. From everything I've seen the immediate reaction from most people has been something like "oh, that's kind of cool I guess. If they want us to pay for the stadium though, fuck 'em. Why can't they play in the vikings stadium again?"

Go to the ESPN homepage right now, do you see a single story about MLS' announcement? Nope. Even the cricket world cup get's more coverage here.
I wasn't suggesting that there is a lot of political power. But this is more of an upper hand than releasing a full plan and being unable to carrying it out after the fact.

Many people probably think they can play in the Vikings stadium--and the rational part of me says they should--but a lot of urbanists have suddenly found a reason to drop their opposition (because, you know, soccer) to publicly funded stadiums in the city. If Minneapolis hadn't just committed to 30 years of Vikings payments, our new city council would be tripping over themselves to fund this project (and completely redevelop the "West Loop").

matt91486
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Re: West Loop Neighborhood

Postby matt91486 » March 25th, 2015, 9:55 pm

It's also highly disingenuous to suggest that the cricket world cup gets more coverage here. It has a tiny sidebar very deep in the ESPN page. ESPN has simply created a separate soccer portal. Similarly, other sports networks cover soccer a great deal. No one is suggesting that it's not significantly less popular than the NFL or NBA. But let's not exaggerate things just because one might be against public funding for the stadium. And for the record, the MLS averaged 19,000 fans a game last season. The NHL and NBA averaged less than 18,000 each. I don't think that makes the MLS a bigger sport than either of them, but I also don't think it's constructive to suggest it's on par with cricket when the sports have actually become a lot more comparable than you give it credit for.


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