urbanMSP

Gutting it? Is that what you saw in what I wrote? Very uncharitable of you.

oh... My apologizes I had no idea you intended this construction project of two big towers would have little to no impact on the existing building. Here I was just thinking that such towers would need space for footings, support beams, and space for construction materials ect ect. Do you envision these two towers being built while the post office is still able to remain open on the ground floor? Very interesting suggestion indeed. Heck maybe the Lady of Lords church just north of downtown needs to be informed of this method of construction considering they are concerned about construction damage and they are hundreds of inches away!

I see.

I am curious about how enough people would get to a market like that. There will not be a lot of convenient parking, light rail is too far for others to walk (especially in winter), the major workplaces are even further, etc. The street car would be an option if/when that gets built I suppose..

The light rail is five (not terribly long) blocks away, not miles. And, even if the Post Office ramp gets demolished, the large ramp on the other side of Hennepin, between 1st and 2nd Streets North, isn't going anywhere.

And there are a lot of buses that stop at that end of Marquette, since it's the end of a dedicated bus lane.. The neighborhood surrounding the neighborhood is almost all apartments, with the Mill City Quarter being built this year.

The interior can be reconfigured as long as the actual features and architectural elements are kept and reused within the structure. Some interiors are heavily protected and can not have significant changes made (like the Forum Cafeteria). There are always arguments that can be made for making more significant changes due to limited re-use options offered within the current configuration. There could be a lot of stalls created by moving wall segments along the central hall. There is also significant space behind the north wall of the central hall that could be completely reconfigured to support a lot of square footage for food vendors, shops cafes and kiosks. I think that the upper floors could be converted into small labs and kitchens for food manufacturing. There is an old warehouse in Brooklyn that has been turned into a food focused small business incubator. There could be bus circulators and street cars that make getting there easier. This concept could really work well.

Hana Kitchen in Brooklyn is a great example.

I would have to think that the streetcar line is the key to bring the amount of people needed conveniently to this sight. This would make it an easily accessed destination shopping experience. I would 100% jump on the line at Lake and Nic and take it all the way down here on the weekend. We used to walk a very long way to get to Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco almost every weekend....it was awesome!!!

That's just not true.

Historic Preservation has a vested interest in keeping old buildings useful, because that's the key to keeping them around. Yes, this space either is or should have historic designation, but that doesn't mean that no changes can be made. Preserving a space in amber, but in so doing rendering it utterly useless for future uses, doesn't help anyway. Reasonable modifications that make a space useful for another function and another generation is absolutely consistent with The Secretary of the Interior's Standards for the Treatment of Historic Properties.

I have personally worked on 4 large historic rehab projects in the Twin Cities and in my experience the statement I made is very true. SHPO and NPS don't budge much and really get pissy when you throw their Standards and/or logic at them. "Reasonable modifications" to you and me is a very different term to them.

Here is an example of a recent historic rehab with a similar lobby; no holes were able to be cut into existing historic stone walls, historic doors were to be maintained, non-historic holes in lobby walls were required to be filled in, existing altered conditions had to be filled in matching the historic scale (single man doors). If the teller spaces/transaction counters are not historic, there may be some leeway in removal. However if they were in a historic location, a similar scaled infill would likely be required.

#firsthandknowledge <-my god that's horrible: Mod Note

That's just not true.

Historic Preservation has a vested interest in keeping old buildings useful, because that's the key to keeping them around. Yes, this space either is or should have historic designation, but that doesn't mean that no changes can be made. Preserving a space in amber, but in so doing rendering it utterly useless for future uses, doesn't help anyway. Reasonable modifications that make a space useful for another function and another generation is absolutely consistent with The Secretary of the Interior's Standards for the Treatment of Historic Properties.

I have personally worked on 4 large historic rehab projects in the Twin Cities and in my experience the statement I made is very true. SHPO and NPS don't budge much and really get pissy when you throw their Standards and/or logic at them. "Reasonable modifications" to you and me is a very different term to them.

Here is an example of a recent historic rehab with a similar lobby; no holes were able to be cut into existing historic stone walls, historic doors were to be maintained, non-historic holes in lobby walls were required to be filled in, existing altered conditions had to be filled in matching the historic scale (single man doors). If the teller spaces/transaction counters are not historic, there may be some leeway in removal. However if they were in a historic location, a similar scaled infill would likely be required.

#firsthandknowledge <-my god that's horrible: Mod Note

I know that the moderators of this forum police this place very closely but I didn't know that it was to the point of editorially criticizing a hashtag.

Anyone who uses a hashtag in places that aren't Twitter, Instagram or Facebook probably understand that it isn't useful as a searchable item and is instead using it to drive home a point.

I know that the posters like to snipe, argue, provoke and troll each other but I didn't know the mods were going to start criticizing writing style.

#preparedtohavethispostmovedtoanythinggoes

I would have to think that the streetcar line is the key to bring the amount of people needed conveniently to this sight. This would make it an easily accessed destination shopping experience. I would 100% jump on the line at Lake and Nic and take it all the way down here on the weekend. We used to walk a very long way to get to Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco almost every weekend....it was awesome!!!

As pointed out, public transportation would be key to getting such a place to be meaningful and prosperous. The transportation offerings would have to improve (read: streetcar).

I'd also add that in my experience working on historic projects isn't a freewheeling, "anything goes" enterprise. If the preservation groups find an old photo with a door somewhere, they'll fight tooth and nail to get that door restored to its former glory despite the impacts on any proposed reuse. It is *possible* to repurpose old buildings but it tends to be expensive and usually has several added layers of bureaucracy that can be difficult to navigate.

As pointed out, public transportation would be key to getting such a place to be meaningful and prosperous.

Minneapolis Post Office Aerial Tramway by mattaudio, on Flickr

Excuse me I think it's the river ferries that will make this place really vibrant and iconic.

As pointed out, public transportation would be key to getting such a place to be meaningful and prosperous.

Minneapolis Post Office Aerial Tramway by mattaudio, on Flickr

It took me awhile to see what you were showing here.....gotta look closely (or click on the pic to expand it)!

[I know that the moderators of this forum police this place very closely but I didn't know that it was to the point of editorially criticizing a hashtag.

The moderation police are working overtime on this thread. I've had at least two posts deleted and Grant had one deleted that I know of.

[I know that the moderators of this forum police this place very closely but I didn't know that it was to the point of editorially criticizing a hashtag.

The moderation police are working overtime on this thread. I've had at least two posts deleted and Grant had one deleted that I know of.

You must have been using the word "The" incorrectly. Mods are only here to help us be better people they mock us to help encourage ourselves to become better...

Also being only 5 blocks away is not that far. During cold weather there is the skyway that is just one street crossing short so it could be easily accessed during the cold weather already, better so if one more skyway connection was created.

Structures like this typically depend on tourism to a not-insignificant extent (Pike's Place, Fisherman's Wharf, etc.--you're more likely to take your visiting aunt there than to go yourself on a given Sunday), the question isn't just whether relatively-experienced locals would be willing to walk five blocks, but whether your grandmother would. That's especially important given the number of fairly busy streets that would need to be crossed (esp. Washington, but even 4th and 3rd) and the fact that the destination wouldn't actually be visible until you got around the Yamasaki building.

A streetcar connection would obviously improve connectivity here greatly.

We could also significantly calm Washington / 3rd / 4th to improve connectivity between the core and the riverfront.

Yeah, Washington is kind of a physical and mental area separating the transit rich core from the river area. Quite a few times I've taken the train downtown to get a package at the post office, and it definitely felt like, mentally, I was leaving one "zone" and entering another.

We could also significantly calm Washington / 3rd / 4th to improve connectivity between the core and the riverfront.

I'd love to see it, but I think the streetcar might be an easier pull in the shorter term (which is saying something). As long as 94 dumps cars onto 3rd/4th, they're going to stay fairly congested.

This is getting off topic, so feel free Mods to move, but: One thing that would really help on 4th is to increase visibility for people crossing on the north/west side of Nicollet. Right now (particularly at morning and evening rush) there is usually a line of buses on the south curb of 4th, which makes it difficult to judge oncoming traffic. I'm not sure what would be best here; a bump-out would be nice for pedestrians, but would presumably require buses to perform a problematic merge back into traffic since it would block the curb lane.