Downtown East Pedestrian Realm / Traffic Calming Plan

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
seanrichardryan
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Downtown East Pedestrian Realm / Traffic Calming Plan

Postby seanrichardryan » April 7th, 2015, 5:40 pm

I think this fits here. T&PW committee got a presentation on streetscape/ ped improvements for Downtown east today:

http://finance-commerce.com/2015/04/see ... town-east/
http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 139754.pdf
http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 139706.pdf

*edit- LARgE BUmpouts.
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EOst
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby EOst » April 7th, 2015, 6:46 pm

The protected bike lanes on Park and Portland would make it even sillier that the buffered lanes end at 18th.

Rich
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby Rich » April 7th, 2015, 7:17 pm

Not sure if there was any doubt remaining, but it now looks like a certainty that 5th St. between Chicago and Park will be removed permanently. Downtown East will be far far more accommodating to pedestrians and bikes than it's ever been.

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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby Wedgeguy » April 7th, 2015, 7:25 pm

With the !-94 traffic moved to 7th, there should be very little traffic on 5th. it will be primarily used by those that use it for access to their parking facilities. This will make the south side of the park calmer than the 3rd street side as far as traffic levels go.

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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby seanrichardryan » April 7th, 2015, 8:29 pm

Image

I think this looks great. Also note the additional mystery tower across the park behind the skyway connecting the WF towers.
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nBode
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby nBode » April 7th, 2015, 8:33 pm

Those are some wiiide lanes.

Also, I think that's the Hennepin County Public Health building, or something (Not sure what it's called). There is a tower in that location right next to the armory. There's also a little 2 story thing and parking lot right in front of it which could maybe be developed.
Last edited by nBode on April 7th, 2015, 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Nick
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby Nick » April 7th, 2015, 8:36 pm

What if we just closed Portland for a few weeks and saw how it went?

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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby PhilmerPhil » April 7th, 2015, 8:59 pm

Okay. There are some great improvements in there, so I hate to be negative, but it seems like so much more should be done. We're still going to end up with lots of wide 3 lane one ways, the 3rd St bike lane (which the Hiawatha Trail connects to) isn't getting a buffer, 5th St isn't getting closed/woonerfed entirely, no two way conversions in sight, etc.

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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby Archiapolis » April 8th, 2015, 6:53 am

Nick wrote:What if we just closed Portland for a few weeks and saw how it went?
-1

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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby Archiapolis » April 8th, 2015, 6:56 am

PhilmerPhil wrote:Okay. There are some great improvements in there, so I hate to be negative, but it seems like so much more should be done. We're still going to end up with lots of wide 3 lane one ways, the 3rd St bike lane (which the Hiawatha Trail connects to) isn't getting a buffer, 5th St isn't getting closed/woonerfed entirely, no two way conversions in sight, etc.
+100

This image is SUCH a far cry from the continuous green space the Vikings/Ryan sold for this "park."
Basically, "we" are getting a "5 over 1" apartment with it's own large green space, a stroad, and a smallish "park" largely dedicated to Willian events with no meaningful community programming and no budget. Thanks Obama.

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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby RailBaronYarr » April 8th, 2015, 7:19 am

PhilmerPhil wrote:Okay. There are some great improvements in there, so I hate to be negative, but it seems like so much more should be done. We're still going to end up with lots of wide 3 lane one ways, the 3rd St bike lane (which the Hiawatha Trail connects to) isn't getting a buffer, 5th St isn't getting closed/woonerfed entirely, no two way conversions in sight, etc.
Yeah, I want to be excited about the good things in there. Bumpouts are great and should be the standard across the city that street re-dos need a variance from, so I'm glad to seen them so common/pronounced here. At the same time, they don't do much to calm 3 lanes of one-way traffic. If this area is going to be a real neighborhood with people walking/biking around, accessing the park, and on, then they really need to go the extra step with more protected/raised cycle facilities, fewer one-way lanes and/or conversion to two-way, etc.

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Nathan
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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby Nathan » April 8th, 2015, 7:45 am

I love you all, and your enthusiasm and the big ideas, but the common people need baby steps and this baby step probably seems like a huge irrational grab at their freedom anyways. So let's celebrate these victories and continue to advocate for the big ideas as normal citizens start to realize it's not the end of the world.

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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby EOst » April 8th, 2015, 8:10 am

Nathan wrote:I love you all, and your enthusiasm and the big ideas, but the common people need baby steps and this baby step probably seems like a huge irrational grab at their freedom anyways. So let's celebrate these victories and continue to advocate for the big ideas as normal citizens start to realize it's not the end of the world.
-1

At the end of this, the DTE area will still be among the most inviting and pedestrian-friendly areas in this entire state. Is this plan perfect? Hell no. But it's better than I expected to see.

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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby xandrex » April 8th, 2015, 8:22 am

Is any of this even down in stone? If this is what they want to see, might there be a benefit to push on policymakers to do even more?

I'd say it's a good start. Can't disagree with Nathan on how we usually need to take baby steps.

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Re: The Commons - Downtown East Park

Postby Tyler » April 8th, 2015, 9:21 am

RailBaronYarr wrote:Bumpouts are great and should be the standard across the city that street re-dos need a variance from, so I'm glad to seen them so common/pronounced here. At the same time, they don't do much to calm 3 lanes of one-way traffic.
I don't disagree with your post in general -- but is this really accurate? It seems to me removing the turn lanes would calm the traffic quite a bit -- especially if there a decent amount of pedestrian activity.
Towns!

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Re: Downtown East - General Topics

Postby MNdible » April 8th, 2015, 11:53 am

From the report:
Metro Transit has agreed to the removal of the reverse flow bus lane from Norm McGrew Place west to 5th Avenue.
Is the 3 the only bus that uses that stretch of the contra flow lane? And if so, would the 3 just stay on Third Street a little longer before jogging over?

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Re: Downtown East - General Topics

Postby VAStationDude » April 8th, 2015, 12:55 pm

The 3 westbound uses 3rd Street, turns down fourth avenue and uses the 4th street reverse flow lane. I don't know if that change dates to the green line opening or the ramp and wells Fargo construction kicking into high gear.

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Re: Downtown East - General Topics

Postby RailBaronYarr » April 8th, 2015, 1:00 pm

I guess in the spectrum of "paint and planters" on one end and "freeway trenches or LRT tunnels" on the other, I'd classify protected bike lanes far closer to a baby step. We pantasize big projects/ideas a lot on here, but if concrete is poured that precludes doing what we know is a top-notch bike facility again for 30 years, that seems problematic.

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Re: Downtown East - General Topics

Postby mulad » April 8th, 2015, 1:52 pm

The 4th Street contraflow lane is mostly used by the 3, though there are a couple of express routes that also use it -- 355 and 695.

I probably wouldn't mind them removing the lane if they were(/are?) simply converting 4th to be a two-way street. The disadvantage of removing the lane is that it makes it harder to transfer from the 3 to the Blue Line.

I know I did get annoyed at the gated LRT crossing of Norm McGrew Place a couple years ago when my bus was stuck there while three trains went through (presumably two trains in operation and one not in service). The 3 probably gets stuck waiting much more frequently these days with the Green Line also using those tracks.

(Cue again the discussion of swapping 4th Street and the LRT tracks to remove conflicts.)

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Re: Downtown East - General Topics

Postby FISHMANPET » April 8th, 2015, 1:59 pm

Right now the 3 is detoured to 3rd St because there's no stop on 4th because of construction, and the whole experience is just the woooorst.

The next stop after the detour stop is like 4 blocks away, and it's a left turn, so if you don't pull the cord for the detour stop soon enough the driver will be in the left lane and just blow by it. The sidewalk is crap in that area. It's just all crap.


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