Maverick - 100 Hennepin Avenue S

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Maverick - 100 Hennepin Avenue S

Postby twincitizen » April 22nd, 2015, 5:34 pm

http://finance-commerce.com/2015/04/rya ... -hennepin/ (locked)

Ryan & Shorenstein are teaming up on a 6-story, 159-unit project on the vacant lot in front of the massive parking garage at 1st & Hennepin.

Shorenstein acquired the lot (and parking ramp) when they purchased the three-building Washington Square / ING complex for $100MM last year. The parking ramp has "about 1,000 stalls" according to that link.

Hennepin County Property Map: http://gis.hennepin.us/property/map/def ... 2924410102
The property measures 340' X 130', just under 1 acre.

With the presence of the 1,000-space ramp there, you have to imagine they're not going to build much, if any additional parking under the apartment building. Given that cost savings (and the basically incidental cost of acquiring this lot), I really hope they spend extra money on the design and high-quality exterior materials. This is way too prominent of a site to be "just another 6-story building". It had better be a great one, if not the best, out of the current apartment boom.

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Re: 100 Hennepin Avenue S

Postby Anondson » April 22nd, 2015, 5:36 pm

Not to be the one with "THAT complaint", but, only six on this plot? Is there a height restriction?

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Nick
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Re: 100 Hennepin Avenue S

Postby Nick » April 22nd, 2015, 6:02 pm

I think we're getting to the point where that may be a fair complaint. Lotta surface lots have bitten the dust in three years and this is a spot where you could ostensibly incorporate the ramp for parking and cut down a lot on costs.

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Re: 100 Hennepin Avenue S

Postby Munch'n » April 22nd, 2015, 6:02 pm

Anondson wrote:Not to be the one with "THAT complaint", but, only six on this plot? Is there a height restriction?
Yes this is disappointing, why would they want to be equal with the parking ramp? That sucks.
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Re: 100 Hennepin Avenue S

Postby MNdible » April 22nd, 2015, 6:33 pm

At first I was inclined to agree with you all, but thinking about it a bit more, I think having a consistent height along the first three blocks of Hennepin could be a nice effect.

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Re: 100 Hennepin Avenue S

Postby acs » April 22nd, 2015, 6:48 pm

Only 159 units? This would be one of the least dense proposals we've seen yet downtown. Considering there is a ramp that can support 1,000 cars that is a huge waste.

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Re: 100 Hennepin Avenue S

Postby Wedgeguy » April 22nd, 2015, 6:51 pm

One has to remember that those parking spaces go to the 3 other Shorenstein properties for tenant parking. That is private and not public parking. I'd almost think they would do some underground parking there or platform like the Carlyle did. Try and get retail facing Hennepin if possible.

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Re: 100 Hennepin Avenue S

Postby grant1simons2 » April 22nd, 2015, 7:02 pm

Still blocks out the ramp either way.

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Re: 100 Hennepin Avenue S

Postby acs » April 22nd, 2015, 7:21 pm

Wedgeguy wrote:One has to remember that those parking spaces go to the 3 other Shorenstein properties for tenant parking. That is private and not public parking. I'd almost think they would do some underground parking there or platform like the Carlyle did. Try and get retail facing Hennepin if possible.
If we get a stick building above a parking podium in this prime location it will be a new low for this city.

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Re: 100 Hennepin Avenue S

Postby John » April 22nd, 2015, 7:29 pm

This parcel is not just another plot of land to build anything a developer wants. The site has civic/historical importance and in the summer this stretch of Hennepin will become more like a pedestrian promenade connecting the renovated Nicollet Mall to the Riverfront. I think the city will be quite vocal in wanting this a high quality project. And it should have some retail on the street level!

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Re: 100 Hennepin Avenue S

Postby seanrichardryan » April 22nd, 2015, 9:38 pm

No more disjointed 222s! High end materials and a clean design. Two structures would be ideal, with no hanging balconies.
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Re: 100 Hennepin Avenue S

Postby grant1simons2 » April 23rd, 2015, 7:50 am

I do wonder some days.. 222 Hennepin being leased up faster than they demolished the metrodome, being sold for 3 times as much as Neverland Ranch, and having a very successful grocery tenant. Yet Ryan and Shorenstein still think that it's such a great thing that they're building another 6 story building. With the amount of demand it sometimes feels like we're being lied to about why they can't build anything bigger.

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Re: 100 Hennepin Avenue S

Postby John » April 23rd, 2015, 8:07 am

This parcel beckons to have a building built on a scale similar to Latitude 45. No too tall or not too short, concrete frame, retail on the base, and as Sean stated above a clean, harmonious design with high quality materials.

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Re: 100 Hennepin Avenue S

Postby EOst » April 23rd, 2015, 8:24 am

grant1simons2 wrote:I do wonder some days.. 222 Hennepin being leased up faster than they demolished the metrodome, being sold for 3 times as much as Neverland Ranch, and having a very successful grocery tenant. Yet Ryan and Shorenstein still think that it's such a great thing that they're building another 6 story building. With the amount of demand it sometimes feels like we're being lied to about why they can't build anything bigger.
Developers want to keep developing. If there is demand for X units, a developer can build one building with X units, or Y buildings with X/Y units. The latter keeps them working (which is good for them, and incidentally also the economy) and probably makes them more money when it comes time to sell.

Nor do I think that's a bad thing. This city has SO MANY vacant or underused lots. I'd much rather have consistent medium-density neighborhoods than a few towers nestled in a sea of parking lots.

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Re: 100 Hennepin Avenue S

Postby Gman12 » April 23rd, 2015, 8:33 am

grant1simons2 wrote:I do wonder some days.. 222 Hennepin being leased up faster than they demolished the metrodome, being sold for 3 times as much as Neverland Ranch, and having a very successful grocery tenant. Yet Ryan and Shorenstein still think that it's such a great thing that they're building another 6 story building. With the amount of demand it sometimes feels like we're being lied to about why they can't build anything bigger.
What are we being lied to about? What is their objective? In my opinion they are just developing safe, low risk projects. Why tie up a bunch of money in a tall building during the longer construction period and the longer time it takes to lease it out?

While there have been a lot of infill over the past few years, I'm not really dissapointed with these 6 story projects. Downtown was such a barron waste land that we still have NOT reached a tipping point for building higher. Every time I'm out for a jog or a bike ride I still see tons of developable space. I look at this as another positive step in the right direction and down the road it will end up better than if we built a bunch of 15 story buildings now.

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Re: 100 Hennepin Avenue S

Postby Anondson » April 23rd, 2015, 8:34 am

Anyone knowledgeable in the financing of these six-story developments? How long would a six story building have to last here for an owner to get back the investment to make it worth then tearing it down for building something significantly taller with more units?

What if the proposal is a higher earning placeholder than a parking lot? I think I could accept that.

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Re: 100 Hennepin Avenue S

Postby Archiapolis » April 23rd, 2015, 8:36 am

John wrote:This parcel beckons to have a building built on a scale similar to Latitude 45. No too tall or not too short, concrete frame, retail on the base, and as Sean stated above a clean, harmonious design with high quality materials.
Sadly, it's all about the parking.

I don't know the particulars on the ramp but unless the devs have a 1:1 stall availability in that ramp for their 159 unit building, there is going to be parking. The water table in this area will allow for about 2 levels of underground parking. It *looks" like a decent size for getting two double loaded drive aisles in there (pretty similar to the surface lot) with ramps, turning, etc. It would be great to get the parking in the ramp (and/or underground) and active uses at the street.

As for the 6 stories, this is the comfort zone for devs right now - it's a "known quantity" in terms of flipping quickly and not too risky. The construction type is IIIA or IIIB with 5 stories of stick framing over one level of concrete framing above grade. The architects around town and Humphreys who did 222 (puke) are well acquainted with this project type.

As for "no hung balconies"...again, a "known quantity" in terms of cost and constructability. Different things can be done for balconies but they are more money and getting the devs to spend money is not easy.

I agree that it would be nice to have a bigger project here but if they own/control the land and there are no other proposals on the table, I don't really see the city refusing this project in favor of an abstract "better" project that doesn't currently exist but maybe Jacob Frey and the urbanists will fight for something else...

I'd like to enter a wager now that this project will look *very similar* to the project proposed for the west end of "The Commons."

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Re: 100 Hennepin Avenue S

Postby grant1simons2 » April 23rd, 2015, 8:38 am

I've been told by multiple developers that there isn't enough demand for anything over 300 units. That it would be an "unsafe" investment. I didn't say I want tall. I guess I should've cleared that up some more. I want more units. And yes that may result in a height change as well, but it'd be worth it for the density. I read an article today that they want to put town homes lining N 1st St.. Why? Why use that space for town homes when you can have retail and bring life back to the corner? Once again we're told it's all in the demand. Understandable in this case for retail because that's a slow moving train downtown. But they're literally growing downtown, and along with that the people in the market for retail stores.

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Re: 100 Hennepin Avenue S

Postby Archiapolis » April 23rd, 2015, 8:45 am

Anondson wrote:Anyone knowledgeable in the financing of these six-story developments? How long would a six story building have to last here for an owner to get back the investment to make it worth then tearing it down for building something significantly taller with more units?
I'm sure someone has that calculation but I'd say that that math takes a backseat to the following:
Cost of construction
Anticipated lease-up
Anticipated sale price

I don't know about Ryan's track record for "holding" buildings but these things are basically being "flipped" before they are even done as we have seen from various devs. This is all driven by banks and private investors who want their money NOW. There are a few devs around town that hold their projects and they are probably the only ones who are interested in the calculation that you are presenting.

I don't want to divulge too much about how much these "5 over 1's" are built for but the primary calculation that the devs make involves and how to make it look attractive (as an investment, not architecturally):
Cost of construction/rentable square footage and rent/square foot.

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Re: 100 Hennepin Avenue S

Postby acs » April 23rd, 2015, 8:48 am

^Sound familiar? It should...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMansion


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