Century Plaza / Convention Hotel rumoring (archive)

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Scott16475
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Century Plaza / Convention Hotel rumoring (archive)

Postby Scott16475 » August 31st, 2012, 8:48 am

According to this MSP Business Journal article, a new 1,000 room hotel is being proposed near the Minneapolis Convention Center.
http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/p ... -room.html

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mattaudio
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Re: 330 South 12th

Postby mattaudio » August 31st, 2012, 8:57 am

Aren't there other parcels within a few blocks of the CC with more redevelopment potential than Century Plaza? I've never been in the building but it seems like a decent use compared to surface lots and suburbanesque buildings in the area. Also why would the county be doing the job of a private developer?

Scott16475
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Re: 330 South 12th

Postby Scott16475 » August 31st, 2012, 9:02 am

I'm wondering if that's WHY the CC building is in play. It's much cheaper to develop on a land that you already own. I agree with you; I would rather build on a surface lot.

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Re: 330 South 12th

Postby John » August 31st, 2012, 9:04 am

If this comes to fruition , it could easily be one of the tallest (if not the tallest) building in Minneapolis. One positive of this site is it could have direct skyway ( or possibly underground) access to the convention center. I think the county has wanted to sell this property for awhile. A hotel of this size downtown would put Minneapolis in the "big leagues" as far as being able to attract conventions that otherwise would pass us by for larger cities.

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Re: 330 South 12th

Postby Tcmetro » August 31st, 2012, 9:20 am

I doubt it would be the tallest building. The article says the Hilton has 891 rooms, and the plots of land are the same size. It would probably be only a few floors taller than the Hilton if it has a similar massing.

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Re: 330 South 12th

Postby MNdible » August 31st, 2012, 9:28 am

Scott16475 wrote:According to this MSP Business Journal article, a new 1,000 room hotel is being proposed near the Minneapolis Convention Center.
Well, that's not really what the article says. It says the county is paying somebody to study whether or not it's feasible.
mattaudio wrote:Aren't there other parcels within a few blocks of the CC with more redevelopment potential than Century Plaza? I've never been in the building but it seems like a decent use compared to surface lots and suburbanesque buildings in the area. Also why would the county be doing the job of a private developer?
We had this same conversation back on Minnescraper, but which full block site do you think is available?

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Re: 330 South 12th

Postby John » August 31st, 2012, 9:42 am

Tcmetro wrote:I doubt it would be the tallest building. The article says the Hilton has 891 rooms, and the plots of land are the same size. It would probably be only a few floors taller than the Hilton if it has a similar massing.
Depends on who the developer is. The Hilton was sharply criticized for its blocky, massive design when built, and actually went through a revision which improved it slightly. I doubt that would happen again. As far as "the study for feasibility" goes, my hunch is there has been some quiet interest by hotel developers to build a new large convention center hotel downtown. This "study for feasibility " gets the ball rolling.

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Re: 330 South 12th

Postby MNdible » August 31st, 2012, 9:50 am

John wrote:Depends on who the developer is. The Hilton was sharply criticized for its blocky, massive design when built, and actually went through a revision which improved it slightly. I doubt that would happen again.
I think it would happen again. Look at images of the large convention center hotels built around the country in the last decade. Yes, they have different claddings, but they tend to share the large floorplates of the Hilton. Some of them look quite tall, but only because they've been built in cities with less impressive skylines than ours.

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Re: 330 South 12th

Postby John » August 31st, 2012, 10:19 am

MNdible wrote:
John wrote:Depends on who the developer is. The Hilton was sharply criticized for its blocky, massive design when built, and actually went through a revision which improved it slightly. I doubt that would happen again.
I think it would happen again. Look at images of the large convention center hotels built around the country in the last decade. Yes, they have different claddings, but they tend to share the large floorplates of the Hilton. Some of them look quite tall, but only because they've been built in cities with less impressive skylines than ours.
A lot of them can be really ugly! lol. One factor they will have to consider is how it relates to the Central Lutheran Church. I don't think anybody would go for a building that completely overwhelms it. There would also have to be some consideration made to its sight lines, especially going south on 3rd Ave.

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Re: 330 South 12th

Postby nasa35 » August 31st, 2012, 10:27 am

The Hilton is an awful building. Lets cross our fingers for this one!

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Re: 330 South 12th

Postby retiredbanker » August 31st, 2012, 10:57 am

I know of no less than 4 "major" developers that have a great deal of interest in that particular site for a major convention hotel. And yes, all the conceptual designs of a hotel are of "significant" height at that location. With the requirements that the city has for a convention hotel, a tall hotel is necessary. I will not list the developers, however, I can say all are 1st class hotel developers, more specificly, convention hotels (3 of the 4 are). I suspect sometime next year, an announcement will be made.

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Re: 330 South 12th

Postby woofner » August 31st, 2012, 11:09 am

It would be tragic if we lost the remnants of this historic structure. Minndianapolis is generic enough - we need to preserve anything that offers distinction to the urban fabric. I'm going to ask my county board member how she can justify spending my tax money on a strategy for destroying our historic resources.
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min-chi-cbus
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Re: 330 South 12th

Postby min-chi-cbus » August 31st, 2012, 11:26 am

Yeah, I hate to say this but I actually kind of LIKE that government/county building and wouldn't mind seeing the outside shell preserved (even if a 40 story hotel rose above it). Plus, I KNOW there is a half block available where the Ivy is, and a full block (multiple owners?) just north of this site. Regardless, the current building -- although not HBU -- is pretty nice-looking.

swmpls
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Re: 330 South 12th

Postby swmpls » August 31st, 2012, 11:28 am

This is a big site, I would hope they could find a way to preserve/restore the historic facade while putting a classy looking skyscraper in the center. Looking at Google maps it looks like the middle is currently a parking ramp.

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Re: 330 South 12th

Postby John » August 31st, 2012, 12:03 pm

retiredbanker wrote:I know of no less than 4 "major" developers that have a great deal of interest in that particular site for a major convention hotel. And yes, all the conceptual designs of a hotel are of "significant" height at that location. With the requirements that the city has for a convention hotel, a tall hotel is necessary. I will not list the developers, however, I can say all are 1st class hotel developers, more specificly, convention hotels (3 of the 4 are). I suspect sometime next year, an announcement will be made.
And I predict it will be a far more attractive building than the Hilton! This site bodes well for a tall building. It would have a gateway presence on the skyline from the south and a taller building would potentially improve the sight lines of Central Lutheran Church with a more slender and less blocky massing (even compared to the current building). And, as far as preserving the current building, what can it be readapted for? ...more apartments?? lol.

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Re: 330 South 12th

Postby nordeast homer » August 31st, 2012, 1:51 pm

Back on Minnescraper I remember someone mentioning that the current building is pretty run down on the inside and needs a LOT of updating, more than what is feasible. Once you start the kind of updating that is needed you need to bring things up to code and it sounded like that may not be possible and so the building can either be updated at a cost that is prohibitive, can be left alone to fall apart,or be demolished and rebuilt as a nice centerpeice for commuters heading north on 35W.
I don't believe there is any historical designation for this building, not to say that it isn't an attractive building from the outside or shouldn't be saved. It's hard not to want a tall hotel here though...

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Re: 330 South 12th

Postby MNdible » August 31st, 2012, 1:55 pm

Everything is relative. The Hilton is 287' tall. It is a tall building.

I don't love the Hilton, but I'm not sure what makes anybody think that it's going to be significantly taller than it is.

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woofner
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Re: 330 South 12th

Postby woofner » August 31st, 2012, 2:15 pm

It's been altered extensively...

Image

...but that doesn't mean it couldn't be restored. This is a WPA structure, and one of the city's handful of Art Deco buildings. If every rundown structure was demolished instead of rehabbed, there would be no old buildings left.
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Re: 330 South 12th

Postby John » August 31st, 2012, 2:35 pm

MNdible wrote:Everything is relative. The Hilton is 287' tall. It is a tall building.

I don't love the Hilton, but I'm not sure what makes anybody think that it's going to be significantly taller than it is.
I trust that when Retiredbanker is referring to a building of "significant height" he is alluding to more of a skyscraper size building ( i.e greater than 500 feet). A hotel with 1000 rooms can be 40+ stories and easily have very efficient elavator system, floor plates, etc. I suspect the developers who are interested in this project and are very sophisticated and experienced with building high-rise urban projects. I think the other point is there will be some design consideration to the relationship of the hotel with The Central Lutheran Church with some spatial deference to the landmark status of this building, maybe in the form of a plaza or how they mass the building. A taller building will allow for more breathing room around the church.

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Re: 330 South 12th

Postby MNdible » August 31st, 2012, 2:54 pm

Perhaps I’m just being dense, but why would a developer want to spend a bunch of extra money for initial construction to make their building taller that it would otherwise have to be? And then have to continue spending extra money because the taller building is less efficient to operate? It would be cool, no doubt, but I’m afraid the days of developers doing stuff because it’s cool have long since passed.


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