City of Minneapolis Office Building - 501 4th Ave S - 11 stories / 171'

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
mattaudio
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Re: City of Minneapolis Offices Consolidation

Postby mattaudio » September 8th, 2016, 8:00 am

HiawathaGuy wrote:
mattaudio wrote:bulk
factual

amiller92
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Re: City of Minneapolis Offices Consolidation

Postby amiller92 » September 8th, 2016, 9:25 am

eastharrietguy wrote:Yes, but my estimated do not include the need from the two new Ryan office buildings. And in any case, the addition is not enough to replace 1,300 lost spaces.
Let me make this a bit more concrete: Tuesday I drove to work because it was raining. I parked in the new ramp by the stadium at about 8:45 (just in time to still be "early bird"). I parked on the skyway level, meaning it wasn't very full. Yesterday it was raining too. I had to park one level up from the skyway, and I could see that the levels higher up were completely empty.

I don't know how full the WF towers are yet, so maybe not everyone has moved in yet, but as for right now, there is quite a bit of excess capacity in the new ramp. The Millwright isn't big enough to fill that capacity, I wouldn't think.

And, of course, the city can and I would assume would add some parking capacity if it builds something there. Regardless, the east side of downtown is not short on parking.

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Re: City of Minneapolis Offices Consolidation

Postby xandrex » September 8th, 2016, 10:44 am

Silophant wrote:Also, if WF subsidizes Metropasses, I would guess a 1/3rd driving modeshare is high. Among my coworkers, maybe 1 in 5 drives to work on a regular basis. If they don't subsidize Metropasses... maybe they should?
I think saying less than 1/3 of workers will drive is a pretty aggressive figure, even if it might be nice. My company offers the MetroPass and many of us use it, but it’s not a stretch to say half of people drive on a regular basis...plenty of suburbanites, moms that shuttle kids around, and people who live in the greater Uptown area that don't like the bus. In fact, the news of the ramp being knocked down for city office consolidation has caused quite a bit of consternation in my workplace since many people use it. We’ve got several higher-ups that are planning to work with our building’s management to lobby against the city getting rid of the ramp (and more than a few grumbles from folks about Minneapolis making it harder for people to drive and park downtown).

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Re: City of Minneapolis Offices Consolidation

Postby mattaudio » September 8th, 2016, 10:51 am

Basic economics suggests that if the current price of car storage in that sub-market is indeed the market clearing price, private parties will step up to increase their supply of car storage. One supplier of car storage (the City) reducing their supply or getting out of that line of business does not constitute "making it harder for people to park downtown" any more than one bar closing in uptown constitutes that owner "making it harder for people to get a drink in Uptown."

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Re: City of Minneapolis Offices Consolidation

Postby Silophant » September 8th, 2016, 11:27 am

I always get a kick out of otherwise staunch free-market uber alles types who get furious that the city isn't doing more to interfere with the free-market process of parking getting converted to higher and better uses.

Have any of the recent downtown parking losses actually been city-owned lots or garages?
There's this proposal, and the Nicollet block, and the 205 Park site, but none of those have happened yet.

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Re: City of Minneapolis Offices Consolidation

Postby xandrex » September 8th, 2016, 12:20 pm

mattaudio wrote:Basic economics suggests that if the current price of car storage in that sub-market is indeed the market clearing price, private parties will step up to increase their supply of car storage. One supplier of car storage (the City) reducing their supply or getting out of that line of business does not constitute "making it harder for people to park downtown" any more than one bar closing in uptown constitutes that owner "making it harder for people to get a drink in Uptown."
The group grumbling tends to be the 40s/50s-age people. They’re also pretty disappointed that the new bike lanes have made Third Avenue more difficult drive on (or so they say). It’s more how they feel than any concrete facts.

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Re: City of Minneapolis Offices Consolidation

Postby VacantLuxuries » September 8th, 2016, 12:25 pm

I always get a kick out of otherwise staunch free-market uber alles types who get furious that the city isn't doing more to interfere with the free-market process of parking getting converted to higher and better uses.
It's easy to say how much you love the free market when you don't realize how socialized your life is.

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Re: City of Minneapolis Offices Consolidation

Postby MNdible » September 8th, 2016, 12:54 pm

This forum is just as guilty as anybody about praising the free market when it happens to do their bidding and moaning when it doesn't, so best not to get all high and mighty.

And it shouldn't surprise anybody to learn that an existing ramp is going to be much more profitable than a new ramp that needs to get built at today's higher construction and land costs.

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Re: City of Minneapolis Offices Consolidation

Postby FISHMANPET » September 8th, 2016, 12:58 pm

Are new standalone parking structures allowed downtown?

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Re: City of Minneapolis Offices Consolidation

Postby acs » September 8th, 2016, 12:59 pm

Nope. Nor is tearing down any building for parking space.

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Re: City of Minneapolis Offices Consolidation

Postby Silophant » September 8th, 2016, 1:02 pm

Both of which have happened in the past year.

acs
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Re: City of Minneapolis Offices Consolidation

Postby acs » September 8th, 2016, 1:12 pm

I'm not sure which project you're referring to with the teardown but the ramp took a state law overruling the city to make it happen.

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Re: City of Minneapolis Offices Consolidation

Postby amiller92 » September 8th, 2016, 1:13 pm

xandrex wrote:They’re also pretty disappointed that the new bike lanes have made Third Avenue more difficult drive on (or so they say).
How could that possibly be, as not one square inch that was devoted to driving space was removed. Although the removal of the medians, addition of the drop off lane by US Bank Plaza and construction of the new planters by HCGC has caused some congestion, but that should be largely done by now.

amiller92
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Re: City of Minneapolis Offices Consolidation

Postby amiller92 » September 8th, 2016, 1:14 pm

acs wrote:Nope. Nor is tearing down any building for parking space.
Unless you get the legislature to mandate a parking structure for your fancy new stadium or, apparently, you're the Westminster church.

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Re: City of Minneapolis Offices Consolidation

Postby Silophant » September 8th, 2016, 1:20 pm

The MSFA ramp and the Bobby and Steve's parking lot expansion are the projects I was referring to.

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Nathan
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Re: City of Minneapolis Offices Consolidation

Postby Nathan » September 8th, 2016, 1:20 pm

amiller92 wrote:
acs wrote:Nope. Nor is tearing down any building for parking space.
Unless you get the legislature to mandate a parking structure for your fancy new stadium or, apparently, you're the Westminster church.
Neither of these things are a permanent single use stand alone parking ramp or permanent surface lot.

The only thing I can think of that is a tear down into permanent surface lot is Bobby and Steves on Washington.

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Re: City of Minneapolis Offices Consolidation

Postby xandrex » September 8th, 2016, 2:25 pm

amiller92 wrote:
xandrex wrote:They’re also pretty disappointed that the new bike lanes have made Third Avenue more difficult drive on (or so they say).
How could that possibly be, as not one square inch that was devoted to driving space was removed. Although the removal of the medians, addition of the drop off lane by US Bank Plaza and construction of the new planters by HCGC has caused some congestion, but that should be largely done by now.
While they didn’t get rid of through lanes, they did eliminate turn lanes, so traffic flow has been occasionally worse. But this is mostly just driver griping about the fact that bikers now have a safe way to get into downtown. I have to pretty frequently remind my colleagues that I’m an occasional biker that likes to not get run over, so I appreciate the lanes.

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Re: City of Minneapolis Offices Consolidation

Postby amiller92 » September 8th, 2016, 2:30 pm

Nathan wrote:Neither of these things are a permanent single use stand alone parking ramp or permanent surface lot.
Only because you put the word "permanent" in there. For right now, the MSFA parking ramp is single use and stand alone. Hopefully it won't stay that way, but there is no mandate that something further must happen. There was a mandate that parking be built.

As to Westminster, they tore down housing for a surface parking lot, again with no guarantee that the next phase would happen/be approved.

Both of those were building single use parking.

Now Westminster is tearing down an office building. I haven't looked closely enough to say they are doing it primarily for parking, but parking is definitely a big part of what they are replacing it with.

Anyway, straying off topic so I'll leave it there.

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Re: City of Minneapolis Offices Consolidation

Postby amiller92 » September 8th, 2016, 2:36 pm

xandrex wrote:While they didn’t get rid of through lanes, they did eliminate turn lanes, so traffic flow has been occasionally worse. But this is mostly just driver griping about the fact that bikers now have a safe way to get into downtown. I have to pretty frequently remind my colleagues that I’m an occasional biker that likes to not get run over, so I appreciate the lanes.
I also spoke too soon about construction being mostly over, southbound next to HCGC is one lane right now for more more on the planters. The construction has definitely created traffic problems at times and I'd guess driver gripes subside some once it's over.

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Re: City of Minneapolis Offices Consolidation

Postby Silophant » September 8th, 2016, 2:44 pm

amiller92 wrote: Anyway, straying off topic so I'll leave it there.
Stray away. I'm gonna move this whole digression over to "Downtown Parking" when I get to a real computer.


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