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18 West 15th Street - CPM development

Posted: August 11th, 2016, 2:51 pm
by lordmoke
New 6 story apartment building proposed for current surface lot in Loring Park:
http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 184929.pdf

Looks nice.

Re: 18 W 15th St

Posted: August 11th, 2016, 3:09 pm
by KML_1981
Sweet. Easy access to 19.lol

Re: 18 W 15th St

Posted: August 11th, 2016, 3:14 pm
by Qhaberl
Wonderful to see!!!


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Re: 18 W 15th St

Posted: August 11th, 2016, 3:21 pm
by MNdible
Looks like a nice infill project. But is it too much to ask to have the brick run full height (or at least to the first cornice) on the front massing?

Re: 18 W 15th St

Posted: August 11th, 2016, 4:01 pm
by amiller92
Have we thought about what this loss of parking will do to our historic Market Bar-B-Que?

Joking aside, this looks great.

Re: 18 W 15th St

Posted: August 11th, 2016, 4:02 pm
by FISHMANPET
More brick is, actually, too much to ask (at least full height, and it already does run to the first cornice).

I've been trying to confirm this (maybe someone like Archiapolis can confirm/deny it) but I heard from a source I trust that in a wood frame structure you can only use brick up to about 3 stories, because of the different rates of expansion/contraction in wood vs brick. Anything beyond that you're looking at brick facing (basically tile, some might call it peel & stick brick) which is actually more expensive than regular brick.

Re: 18 W 15th St

Posted: August 11th, 2016, 4:29 pm
by beige_box
Lol'd at how they call these "junior 1 bedrooms" in the project description.

Re: 18 W 15th St

Posted: August 11th, 2016, 5:14 pm
by MNdible
FISHMANPET wrote:More brick is, actually, too much to ask (at least full height, and it already does run to the first cornice).

I've been trying to confirm this (maybe someone like Archiapolis can confirm/deny it) but I heard from a source I trust that in a wood frame structure you can only use brick up to about 3 stories, because of the different rates of expansion/contraction in wood vs brick. Anything beyond that you're looking at brick facing (basically tile, some might call it peel & stick brick) which is actually more expensive than regular brick.
I guess it depends on how you're counting stories and cornices, but anyway, I'd like brick to run up to the second-to-top story. Yes, there are limitations to how high you can cheaply use brick over stick frame, but they're not absolute, and I could live with peel-and-stick brick on levels 3-5 if that meant that the building would be more consistent with the rest of the neighborhood. We're not talking about the whole building here, just the front massing.

Re: 18 W 15th St

Posted: August 12th, 2016, 12:01 am
by Nathan
Also most brick manufacturers make their brick in both full and thin veneer now, so you could do a mixture to save money. It's really only corners in the thin that cost so much more. (Also labor for the thin is less)...

Re: 18 W 15th St

Posted: August 12th, 2016, 6:23 am
by TommyT
I think this looks great! I hope to see more develop in Loring Park. Sad to see no retail though.

Re: 18 W 15th St

Posted: August 12th, 2016, 8:22 am
by FISHMANPET
Nathan wrote:Also most brick manufacturers make their brick in both full and thin veneer now, so you could do a mixture to save money. It's really only corners in the thin that cost so much more. (Also labor for the thin is less)...
I was told that the opposite was true, that the thin brick is more expensive on labor.

Re: 18 W 15th St

Posted: August 12th, 2016, 10:52 am
by Nathan
FISHMANPET wrote:
Nathan wrote:Also most brick manufacturers make their brick in both full and thin veneer now, so you could do a mixture to save money. It's really only corners in the thin that cost so much more. (Also labor for the thin is less)...
I was told that the opposite was true, that the thin brick is more expensive on labor.
Nope.

Re: 18 W 15th St

Posted: August 12th, 2016, 12:46 pm
by FISHMANPET
I've already cited my source, what little it is, by talking to someone that works in the industry, and Nathan has worked in the industry as well, so he probably has firsthand knowledge.

But I'd be curious to see third party sources that talk about it, if they even exist. I don't really think either person is lying so I wonder if there are other factors involved in making it work or not.

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Re: 18 W 15th St

Posted: August 12th, 2016, 1:26 pm
by Nathan
FISHMANPET wrote:I've already cited my source, what little it is, by talking to someone that works in the industry, and Nathan has worked in the industry as well, so he probably has firsthand knowledge.

But I'd be curious to see third party sources that talk about it, if they even exist. I don't really think either person is lying so I wonder if there are other factors involved in making it work or not.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
I emailed my former boss who is now a masonry bidder for allstar construction to give approximate installed price ranges for both products.

My family has sold brick and stone for almost 30 years... *source.

Re: 18 W 15th St

Posted: August 12th, 2016, 4:41 pm
by Nathan
Here's what I got back from Allstar Construction

Full Brick Labor 20-25$ per square foot
Thin Brick Labor 15-18$ per square foot


Full Brick Installed 38-42$ per square foot
Thin Brick Installed 35-45$ per square foot (dependent on the number of outside 90 degree corners)

*non union, residential pricing, but the proportions would be about the same.

Re: 18 W 15th St

Posted: August 12th, 2016, 5:09 pm
by FISHMANPET
So the product itself is for sure more expensive, now that I think harder about it that may have been what he was referring to. But it looks like, at least from that quote, that price is probably a wash, but maybe if you tried to clad the whole upper portion of the building in thin brick it would get a little more expensive doing all those outside corners?

Re: 18 W 15th St

Posted: August 22nd, 2016, 9:23 am
by RailBaronYarr
Not sure of his source, but Nick sez this has an updated exterior: https://twitter.com/nickmagrino/status/ ... 8521618433

Red brick up to the 5th floor. Someone must have been reading this thread.

Re: 18 W 15th St

Posted: August 22nd, 2016, 9:27 am
by grant1simons2
This is kind of a weird question but, what do they do with the power lines on this site?

Re: 18 W 15th St

Posted: August 22nd, 2016, 9:49 am
by Silophant
They'll bury them. The line will probably go underground at the alley behind the building, then come back up at that first pole on the south side of 15th St.

Re: 18 West 15th Street - CPM development

Posted: October 25th, 2016, 5:29 pm
by grant1simons2