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Re: Washington Square buildings (20, 100, 111 Washington Ave S)

Posted: September 1st, 2016, 1:00 pm
by min-chi-cbus
ARTchitecture....the word is (almost) in the name.....I rest my case!

Re: Washington Square buildings (20, 100, 111 Washington Ave S)

Posted: September 1st, 2016, 1:24 pm
by mattaudio
archiTORTURE. I rest my case!

Re: Washington Square buildings (20, 100, 111 Washington Ave S)

Posted: September 1st, 2016, 1:56 pm
by grant1simons2
Delete your account

Re: Washington Square buildings (20, 100, 111 Washington Ave S)

Posted: September 1st, 2016, 1:59 pm
by seanrichardryan
The temple of Nimes could be picked up and moved back onto that silly surface lot, thus opening Nicollet to bridge square again.

Re: Washington Square buildings (20, 100, 111 Washington Ave S)

Posted: September 1st, 2016, 5:49 pm
by EOst
Here's a stab:
(visual) Art is something created primarily for it's aesthetic value, not for its function.
I don't think that works. First of all, of course, "aesthetics" is a function. But even then you can name plenty of things that are obviously art but are also meant to serve a practical function. Think of a floor mosaic, or a sculptural fountain.

Re: Washington Square buildings (20, 100, 111 Washington Ave S)

Posted: September 3rd, 2016, 3:27 pm
by beige_box
Prioritizing the cosmetic features of something as essential to human life as the very structures that separate us from the elements will always be an act of decadence, and nothing more. If you would like to contemplate the sublime mysteries of abstract objects, do so in its proper context – where it's known as "sculpture." But when you take sculpture out of the gallery and into human socioeconomic life, it's no longer art – it's the fetishistic imposition, by elites, of dominant ideologies onto the public.

That said, it's laughable that anyone who claims to care about the "function" of the built environment would do so to defend the addition of a coffee shop to an office building. Much of what, in certain circles, passes for the quote-unquote "urban" "function" of a structure amounts to little more than an à-la-mode preference for certain setback distances and exterior siding materials–in other words, for certain aesthetic/cosmetic features. Yes, these can serve practical ends from the perspective of developers, landlords and other stakeholders in terms of the subjective desirability of a building vis-à-vis tenants/clients/etc with big discretionary budgets, but those considerations are only "functional" insofar as real estate, as an institution, is and has always been a fetishization of exchange-value over use-value.

If anyone really cared about the "function" of the built environment, we would be talking about how to urgently address homelessness and the affordable housing crisis in Minneapolis, not whether or not office workers get to have Urban™ simulated for them when they go to purchase the caffeine they require to meet their productivity quotas.

Re: Washington Square buildings (20, 100, 111 Washington Ave S)

Posted: September 3rd, 2016, 3:36 pm
by Silophant
K.

Re: Washington Square buildings (20, 100, 111 Washington Ave S)

Posted: September 3rd, 2016, 4:08 pm
by EOst
Prioritizing the cosmetic features of something as essential to human life as the very structures that separate us from the elements will always be an act of decadence, and nothing more. If you would like to contemplate the sublime mysteries of abstract objects, do so in its proper context – where it's known as "sculpture." But when you take sculpture out of the gallery and into human socioeconomic life, it's no longer art – it's the fetishistic imposition, by elites, of dominant ideologies onto the public.
I'm pretty sure it's still art even when it's a fetishistic imposition.

Re: Washington Square buildings (20, 100, 111 Washington Ave S)

Posted: September 3rd, 2016, 4:16 pm
by beige_box
What I REALLY want to know is whether or not coffee is an art form.

Re: RE: Re: Washington Avenue

Posted: September 3rd, 2016, 10:22 pm
by David Greene
Buildings are not art.
That's just ridiculous.

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Re: Washington Square buildings (20, 100, 111 Washington Ave S)

Posted: September 4th, 2016, 4:08 am
by UrsusUrbanicus
I'm pretty sure it's still art even when it's a fetishistic imposition.
There's a place over by 27th and Hennepin whose owners and employees probably agree with you. (And likely think coffee is an art form, also too). :lol:

Re: Washington Square buildings (20, 100, 111 Washington Ave S)

Posted: September 6th, 2016, 7:12 am
by Archiapolis
I'm pretty sure it's still art even when it's a fetishistic imposition.
There's a place over by 27th and Hennepin whose owners and employees probably agree with you. (And likely think coffee is an art form, also too). :lol:
Twin Cities Leather and Latte?

Re: Washington Square buildings (20, 100, 111 Washington Ave S)

Posted: September 6th, 2016, 1:04 pm
by BoredAgain
Prioritizing the cosmetic features of something as essential to human life as the very structures that separate us from the elements will always be an act of decadence, and nothing more. If you would like to contemplate the sublime mysteries of abstract objects, do so in its proper context – where it's known as "sculpture." But when you take sculpture out of the gallery and into human socioeconomic life, it's no longer art – it's the fetishistic imposition, by elites, of dominant ideologies onto the public.

I am glad that I do not live in your world. There is always room for beauty in even the most simple and functional of objects/buildings. "beige_box" seems to be a well chosen screen name.

Re: Washington Square buildings (20, 100, 111 Washington Ave S)

Posted: September 6th, 2016, 9:43 pm
by m b p
I would say architecture's primary function is almost never art. This is true of probably 99% of buildings, with some exceptions being monuments and starchitectural creations.

That is, if architecture (practice) is to buildings (product) as sculpture (practice) is to a sculpture (product).

Anyways, I find the addition acceptable. It's minorly intrusive and respects the geometries of the original design.
Architecture IS about art. Engineering is not.

Architecture is about making the space liveable... enjoyable... interesting. Engineering is about making those ideas practical.

Sometimes the engineers do whatever possible to make the architects vision come to fruition; sometimes architects take a back seat to the engineers.

Re: Washington Square buildings (20, 100, 111 Washington Ave S)

Posted: September 7th, 2016, 7:47 am
by mattaudio
So we all agree on tearing down these three buildings, then?

Re: Washington Square buildings (20, 100, 111 Washington Ave S)

Posted: September 7th, 2016, 7:51 am
by Silophant
Eh, 111 is fine.

Re: Washington Square buildings (20, 100, 111 Washington Ave S)

Posted: September 7th, 2016, 9:11 am
by twincitizen
Agreed, 111 is fine. 100 is also fine for now, and contributes enough office space that it's unlikely to come down anytime soon. Once the Opus block and Nicollet Hotel block have been built out, and the post office has been repurposed (including parking ramp removal), it will be time for 20 Washington to come down. I will fight any attempt at protecting that building.

It's really too bad that The Towers are condos instead of apartments. Condos make redevelopment basically impossible. I cannot envision any future where those buildings are viewed in a positive light. They've probably been mistaken for public housing towers since the day they were built.

Re: Washington Square buildings (20, 100, 111 Washington Ave S)

Posted: September 7th, 2016, 9:35 am
by EOst
it will be time for 20 Washington to come down. I will fight any attempt at protecting that building.
Can't wait to fight you. <3
I cannot envision any future where those buildings are viewed in a positive light. They've probably been mistaken for public housing towers since the day they were built.
http://www.startribune.com/streetscapes ... 318449111/

Re: Washington Square buildings (20, 100, 111 Washington Ave S)

Posted: September 7th, 2016, 9:51 am
by Nathan
These buildings are definitely admired, I show people from out of town this area a lot and the modernism is definitely appreciated. Especially as it becomes more vintage and retro to younger and younger people.

Re: Washington Square buildings (20, 100, 111 Washington Ave S)

Posted: September 7th, 2016, 10:28 am
by DanB
I wonder if it would be possible to rotate 20 Washington 90 degrees and push it up against Marquette. That would would at least allow some development on that block and also allow for the possibility of running Nicollet through to a reconnected 2nd street.