U.S. Bank Stadium

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
Didier
Capella Tower
Posts: 2430
Joined: June 3rd, 2012, 10:11 am
Location: MSP

Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Didier » March 10th, 2016, 3:32 pm

Wait, is there a reason people care about this? Was there even a discussion when the Twins did it?

David Greene
IDS Center
Posts: 4759
Joined: December 4th, 2012, 11:41 am

Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby David Greene » March 10th, 2016, 3:34 pm

We care because it's further erosion of the Commons in favor of private business.

grant1simons2
IDS Center
Posts: 4289
Joined: February 8th, 2014, 11:33 pm
Location: Marcy-Holmes

Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby grant1simons2 » March 10th, 2016, 3:40 pm

I only care because it sounds cheesy and that their reason for wanting it changed is because "The street was named after our rival". No. Just no.

MNdible
is great.
Posts: 5797
Joined: June 8th, 2012, 8:14 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby MNdible » March 10th, 2016, 3:45 pm

And I care because (since they're proposing to actually change the underlying name and not just add a ceremonial name) you'll go from Chicago Avenue to Vikings Way for three blocks and then back to Chicago Avenue, which is confusing and dumb.

The little stretch of street that was renamed Twins Way is discrete and doesn't obviously fit into into the overall street grid.

Didier
Capella Tower
Posts: 2430
Joined: June 3rd, 2012, 10:11 am
Location: MSP

Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Didier » March 10th, 2016, 4:08 pm

Sorry, but this just strikes me as reflexive anti-Wilf complaining, particularly Grant's post.

There's some merit behind the ceremonial vs. actual street name point, but we're still talking about a three-block stretch in which (as far as I can tell) the stadium is the only building affected. If we've made similar changes for other teams, this really shouldn't be that big of a deal.

David Greene
IDS Center
Posts: 4759
Joined: December 4th, 2012, 11:41 am

Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby David Greene » March 10th, 2016, 4:12 pm

Didier wrote:Sorry, but this just strikes me as reflexive anti-Wilf complaining, particularly Grant's post.

There's some merit behind the ceremonial vs. actual street name point, but we're still talking about a three-block stretch in which (as far as I can tell) the stadium is the only building affected. If we've made similar changes for other teams, this really shouldn't be that big of a deal.
So are we to change the name of a street for a block for any business that wants to do so? Where does it end?

It ends here.

Didier
Capella Tower
Posts: 2430
Joined: June 3rd, 2012, 10:11 am
Location: MSP

Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Didier » March 10th, 2016, 4:22 pm

You tell 'em!

In other news, Northern Pitch is reporting that AC Milan and Chelsea are going to play a friendly in August at U.S. Bank Stadium.

moda253
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 145
Joined: June 27th, 2012, 3:28 pm
Contact:

Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby moda253 » March 10th, 2016, 4:37 pm

David Greene wrote:
Didier wrote:Sorry, but this just strikes me as reflexive anti-Wilf complaining, particularly Grant's post.

There's some merit behind the ceremonial vs. actual street name point, but we're still talking about a three-block stretch in which (as far as I can tell) the stadium is the only building affected. If we've made similar changes for other teams, this really shouldn't be that big of a deal.
So are we to change the name of a street for a block for any business that wants to do so? Where does it end?

It ends here.
Well since you seem to regularly speak for everyone on just about everything all the time I guess that's it.

VikingFaninMaryland
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 128
Joined: July 24th, 2015, 7:27 pm

Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby VikingFaninMaryland » March 10th, 2016, 5:06 pm

Sorry, double published again. Deleted this copy
Last edited by VikingFaninMaryland on March 10th, 2016, 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

VikingFaninMaryland
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 128
Joined: July 24th, 2015, 7:27 pm

Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby VikingFaninMaryland » March 10th, 2016, 5:16 pm

VikingFaninMaryland wrote:
Didier wrote:Sorry, but this just strikes me as reflexive anti-Wilf complaining, particularly Grant's post.

There's some merit behind the ceremonial vs. actual street name point, but we're still talking about a three-block stretch in which (as far as I can tell) the stadium is the only building affected. If we've made similar changes for other teams, this really shouldn't be that big of a deal.
Yes, of course no-one complained when the Twins did it. Who would argue against the brazenly cheesie practice of naming streets around a professional franchise in ways that reflect those teams. Like Twins Way etc. Its all in fun and its popular. Sports branding like this supposed to be cheesie. Its fun.

Of course it should be named Viking Way and anyone with a sense of humor would easily understand that the language used by the Vikings had a bit of tongue in cheek humor to it. No-one thinks the City of Chicago or the Chicago Bears will lodge a protest unless, of course, its a return tongue and cheek response.

And of course you're most right that this is really only about the vicious, visceral, irrational hatred of the Wilfs. It's unseemly. Its also the passive aggressive side of what many call "Minnesota Nice." This would not even be an issue - naming the street in front of a $1.1 billion stadium (to recognize the local team) where the team owners put up over $500 million - were the owners anyone other than the Wilfs.

From another forum (Downtown East), how else to explain why Ryan is allowed to retain development rights when they have nothing at time when the Wilf's have an actual plan the fits the use parameters of the DT East, the money to do so, and the ability to start in short order. People here cannot even get themselves to admit (recognize) that the only reason DT East is being developed on its current scale is because the Wilfs chose to build there even as it is an objective reality.

BigIdeasGuy
Landmark Center
Posts: 288
Joined: March 27th, 2013, 8:22 am

Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby BigIdeasGuy » March 10th, 2016, 6:49 pm

VikingFaninMaryland wrote:
VikingFaninMaryland wrote:
Didier wrote:Sorry, but this just strikes me as reflexive anti-Wilf complaining, particularly Grant's post.

There's some merit behind the ceremonial vs. actual street name point, but we're still talking about a three-block stretch in which (as far as I can tell) the stadium is the only building affected. If we've made similar changes for other teams, this really shouldn't be that big of a deal.
Yes, of course no-one complained when the Twins did it. Who would argue against the brazenly cheesie practice of naming streets around a professional franchise in ways that reflect those teams. Like Twins Way etc. Its all in fun and its popular. Sports branding like this supposed to be cheesie. Its fun.

Of course it should be named Viking Way and anyone with a sense of humor would easily understand that the language used by the Vikings had a bit of tongue in cheek humor to it. No-one thinks the City of Chicago or the Chicago Bears will lodge a protest unless, of course, its a return tongue and cheek response.

And of course you're most right that this is really only about the vicious, visceral, irrational hatred of the Wilfs. It's unseemly. Its also the passive aggressive side of what many call "Minnesota Nice." This would not even be an issue - naming the street in front of a $1.1 billion stadium (to recognize the local team) where the team owners put up over $500 million - were the owners anyone other than the Wilfs.

From another forum (Downtown East), how else to explain why Ryan is allowed to retain development rights when they have nothing at time when the Wilf's have an actual plan the fits the use parameters of the DT East, the money to do so, and the ability to start in short order. People here cannot even get themselves to admit (recognize) that the only reason DT East is being developed on its current scale is because the Wilfs chose to build there even as it is an objective reality.
I understand your point of view, largely that the city should be thankful for the Vikings are here and helped make DTE and the Commons possible, and that this is a rather minor request the city can do for the team which is a perfectly fine position to have. In fact part of me agrees with idea that this a relatively minor thing, what's the big deal, just do it.

But the prevailing point of view here is that the Vikings and the Wilf's actually hurt the overall vision for what the development of DTE and the Commons could be instead of helping it, which is also a perfectly fine position to have. Taking a huge number of days of public use from the Commons then only tossing in a million to help build the park that the team will directly benefit most from really doesn't sit well for a lot of people. The MSFA not allowing Ryan to make changes the parking ramp so they can do a better project, yes I know the Vikings and MSFA are separate entities but if you honestly think that the MSFA weren't taking marching orders from the Vikings on that one I have some ocean front property in Arizona you might be interested in. Add in the bridge over the LRT tracks, the half-cool/half-tacky viking ship with a video board screen, the legacy bricks, even the ugly ass HVAC equipment cutting across the windows that will be covered by signage to somehow make is less distracting.

All these things add up to the idea that the Wilf's are more concerned about their own pocketbook than making DTE and the Commons the best it could be. Now they are allowed to do that capitalism and making a profit aren't illegal in the country. You don't become billionaires by putting anything other than your bottom line first, which again isn't illegal. But you add all those things up on top of the $500 million or so the public spent on building the stadium I wouldn't be surprised that you aren't seeing a lot support for the team on a site that's dominated by people who, I would guess, aren't big football fans in the first place.

Wedgeguy
Capella Tower
Posts: 3785
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 6:59 am

Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Wedgeguy » March 10th, 2016, 7:12 pm

When the Viking Queens win at least a Superbowl then they can make such requests. The Twins actually won two World Series with Kirby Puckett so that make it meaningful. The Queens have not done anything meaningful yet in their franchise history except to blackmail us into a new stadium.

go4guy
Foshay Tower
Posts: 899
Joined: June 4th, 2012, 8:54 am

Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby go4guy » March 10th, 2016, 7:44 pm

Not to mention that the Wilfs haven't really contributed anything to the stadium. Their "share" is being paid for by US Bank in the form of naming rights, and by their fans in a sham called PSLs. That is what is paying the Vikings' share, not the actual Wilf's money. That is what annoys a lot of people about all these demands the Wilfs are making. The street name, the Wells Fargo signage. And the ramp issue was the biggest bunch of BS by the Wilf's. It was a complete selfish move done to try and make a competitors project not feasible.

I say we name the 2 block stretch of 4th St along the park "Wells Fargo Way" since they are the only business on that street, and since, you know, they are actually paying taxes on that street frontage.

By the way, Twins Way is a little known side street rarely used. Chicago Ave is a pretty big street in Minneapolis.

LakeCharles
Foshay Tower
Posts: 831
Joined: January 16th, 2014, 8:34 am
Location: Kingfield

Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby LakeCharles » March 10th, 2016, 8:28 pm

Target has given more back to the city than the Vikings. Can they get Nicollet Mall renamed Target Way between 10th and 11th?

Bill McGuire's foundation built a park for residents. Can he get West River Parkway renamed McGuire Way between 11th and Chicago?

I paid assessments on my street when it was rebuilt, can I change it to LakeCharles Way?

I literally see no difference between those requests and the Vikings request. Except that those people had the decency not to ask the city to change street names for them.

Didier
Capella Tower
Posts: 2430
Joined: June 3rd, 2012, 10:11 am
Location: MSP

Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Didier » March 10th, 2016, 9:32 pm

go4guy wrote:Their "share" is being paid for by US Bank in the form of naming rights, and by their fans in a sham called PSLs.
This comes up a lot, and I get the sentiment, but it's not a great argument. The Vikings are paying for their share of the stadium through revenue they create. That's how pretty much all business works. Wells Fargo is building their two towers with future revenue from their customers too.

VikingFaninMaryland
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 128
Joined: July 24th, 2015, 7:27 pm

Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby VikingFaninMaryland » March 11th, 2016, 2:02 am

I understand your point of view, largely that the city should be thankful for the Vikings are here and helped make DTE and the Commons possible, and that this is a rather minor request the city can do for the team which is a perfectly fine position to have. In fact part of me agrees with idea that this a relatively minor thing, what's the big deal, just do it.

But the prevailing point of view here is that the Vikings and the Wilf's actually hurt the overall vision for what the development of DTE and the Commons could be instead of helping it, which is also a perfectly fine position to have. Taking a huge number of days of public use from the Commons then only tossing in a million to help build the park that the team will directly benefit most from really doesn't sit well for a lot of people. The MSFA not allowing Ryan to make changes the parking ramp so they can do a better project, yes I know the Vikings and MSFA are separate entities but if you honestly think that the MSFA weren't taking marching orders from the Vikings on that one I have some ocean front property in Arizona you might be interested in. Add in the bridge over the LRT tracks, the half-cool/half-tacky viking ship with a video board screen, the legacy bricks, even the ugly ass HVAC equipment cutting across the windows that will be covered by signage to somehow make is less distracting.

All these things add up to the idea that the Wilf's are more concerned about their own pocketbook than making DTE and the Commons the best it could be. Now they are allowed to do that capitalism and making a profit aren't illegal in the country. You don't become billionaires by putting anything other than your bottom line first, which again isn't illegal. But you add all those things up on top of the $500 million or so the public spent on building the stadium I wouldn't be surprised that you aren't seeing a lot support for the team on a site that's dominated by people who, I would guess, aren't big football fans in the first place.
I don't understand the sentiment.
Actually, these responses make my case - there is a viscous petty dislike for the Wilfs that cause many in this forum to express irrational statements about them for the normal decisions they make in the context of securing and executing the rights similarly situated sports franchise owners make. No problem wth Twins Way yet a hyper reactive petty response to the Vikings looking to do the same. Keep telling yourself the tortured distinctions between the Twins and Vikings is anything other than malice.

I did not say the City of Minneapolis should be thankful to the Vikings (although they did put a billion dollar stadium in a run-down part of the downtown that actually sparked spectacular redevelopment) but rather that its the right thing to do, makes sense, is reasonable, and they had no problem doing it for the other top tier sports franchises (the Twins) when they asked for such naming rights where no-one even thought to challenge it because it goes with the territory when new sports facilities are built.

On the park, when last reported, the private funds raised for the park were $10.5 million with the Vikings contributing more than anyone else - almost a third - $3 million ( http://www.scout.com/nfl/vikings/story/ ... ar-stadium ). This is a park that will come into existence as part of a redevelopment program made possible by - and sparked by - the Wilfs building their stadium in its current location.

This will be a park that fronts an NFL stadium in which negations relating to the parks formation included agreements where the Vikings secured the right to use the park for Viking tailgate purposes - as if that was never an anticipated and foreseeable role for that park from the beginning.

I don’t pretend to speak for the “prevailing view” but are you accusing the Vikings of bribing the a state office or resorting to intimidation tactics against the MSFA? If so, by all means provide the evidence - real evidence. The air rights Ryan secured and agreed to were based on the MSFA ramp as it existed. Given the millions of dollars in traffic analysis surveys and reports associated with building a downtown parking ramp, there is more to such an undertaking than simply pouring more concrete to lay more levels. There is no basis to claim that Ryan’s failure to perform was actually because it could not secure approval to build additional parking as the development partner pulled out in a manner suggesting that plans never progressed beyond the preliminary. Even if you could show that the Vikings did not like the idea of Ryan building new levels, at best that is a tertiary cause for why Ryan cold not perform. This is on Ryan.

The bridge over the LRT tracks is a sound urban planning, people mover/safety decision. Of the $9.5 million to build the bridge, the Vikings are covering $6 million ( http://www.startribune.com/met-council- ... 351929931/ )

The Vikings ship is standard NFL stadium kitsch that tends to be popular with fans and kids. The legacy bricks are popular enough that the Vikings are going to extend the production run. The HVAC positioning was a business decision. There is nothing that the Wilf’s are doing that is outside standard fare for an NFL franchise. The Minnesota Vikings, like all the NFL teams, are for profit ventures. Then again, so are the Twins, Timberwolves, and Wild.

“All these things add up to the idea” that there is a lot of petty irrational dislike mascaraing as something else.

mullen
Foshay Tower
Posts: 986
Joined: June 4th, 2012, 7:02 am

Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby mullen » March 11th, 2016, 7:31 am

not sure what the big deal is. when the twins got a street renamed "twins way" there was barely a peep.

that being said I think its more the way the Vikings are making the argument. you read their statements and wonder if they actually believe how pretentious they sound. I mean, god forbid we would play on a street named "Chicago". it's pretty silly.

but nothing out of the ordinary for most big facilities like this. a street re-name for a couple blocks. big whoop.

Rich
Rice Park
Posts: 413
Joined: June 30th, 2012, 7:12 pm

Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Rich » March 11th, 2016, 8:15 am

mullen wrote:a street re-name for a couple blocks. big whoop.
If it were really just a couple blocks it’d be fine. Twins Way is a couple blocks. So we can happily allow that. But doesn’t Zygi want Vikings Way to be three blocks? That’s 50% more than a couple. Ridiculous! This will destroy our way of life and plunge the city into chaos.

BigIdeasGuy
Landmark Center
Posts: 288
Joined: March 27th, 2013, 8:22 am

Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby BigIdeasGuy » March 11th, 2016, 8:21 am

VikingFaninMaryland wrote:
I understand your point of view, largely that the city should be thankful for the Vikings are here and helped make DTE and the Commons possible, and that this is a rather minor request the city can do for the team which is a perfectly fine position to have. In fact part of me agrees with idea that this a relatively minor thing, what's the big deal, just do it.

But the prevailing point of view here is that the Vikings and the Wilf's actually hurt the overall vision for what the development of DTE and the Commons could be instead of helping it, which is also a perfectly fine position to have. Taking a huge number of days of public use from the Commons then only tossing in a million to help build the park that the team will directly benefit most from really doesn't sit well for a lot of people. The MSFA not allowing Ryan to make changes the parking ramp so they can do a better project, yes I know the Vikings and MSFA are separate entities but if you honestly think that the MSFA weren't taking marching orders from the Vikings on that one I have some ocean front property in Arizona you might be interested in. Add in the bridge over the LRT tracks, the half-cool/half-tacky viking ship with a video board screen, the legacy bricks, even the ugly ass HVAC equipment cutting across the windows that will be covered by signage to somehow make is less distracting.

All these things add up to the idea that the Wilf's are more concerned about their own pocketbook than making DTE and the Commons the best it could be. Now they are allowed to do that capitalism and making a profit aren't illegal in the country. You don't become billionaires by putting anything other than your bottom line first, which again isn't illegal. But you add all those things up on top of the $500 million or so the public spent on building the stadium I wouldn't be surprised that you aren't seeing a lot support for the team on a site that's dominated by people who, I would guess, aren't big football fans in the first place.
I don't understand the sentiment.
Actually, these responses make my case - there is a viscous petty dislike for the Wilfs that cause many in this forum to express irrational statements about them for the normal decisions they make in the context of securing and executing the rights similarly situated sports franchise owners make. No problem wth Twins Way yet a hyper reactive petty response to the Vikings looking to do the same. Keep telling yourself the tortured distinctions between the Twins and Vikings is anything other than malice.

I did not say the City of Minneapolis should be thankful to the Vikings (although they did put a billion dollar stadium in a run-down part of the downtown that actually sparked spectacular redevelopment) but rather that its the right thing to do, makes sense, is reasonable, and they had no problem doing it for the other top tier sports franchises (the Twins) when they asked for such naming rights where no-one even thought to challenge it because it goes with the territory when new sports facilities are built.

On the park, when last reported, the private funds raised for the park were $10.5 million with the Vikings contributing more than anyone else - almost a third - $3 million ( http://www.scout.com/nfl/vikings/story/ ... ar-stadium ). This is a park that will come into existence as part of a redevelopment program made possible by - and sparked by - the Wilfs building their stadium in its current location.

This will be a park that fronts an NFL stadium in which negations relating to the parks formation included agreements where the Vikings secured the right to use the park for Viking tailgate purposes - as if that was never an anticipated and foreseeable role for that park from the beginning.

I don’t pretend to speak for the “prevailing view” but are you accusing the Vikings of bribing the a state office or resorting to intimidation tactics against the MSFA? If so, by all means provide the evidence - real evidence. The air rights Ryan secured and agreed to were based on the MSFA ramp as it existed. Given the millions of dollars in traffic analysis surveys and reports associated with building a downtown parking ramp, there is more to such an undertaking than simply pouring more concrete to lay more levels. There is no basis to claim that Ryan’s failure to perform was actually because it could not secure approval to build additional parking as the development partner pulled out in a manner suggesting that plans never progressed beyond the preliminary. Even if you could show that the Vikings did not like the idea of Ryan building new levels, at best that is a tertiary cause for why Ryan cold not perform. This is on Ryan.

The bridge over the LRT tracks is a sound urban planning, people mover/safety decision. Of the $9.5 million to build the bridge, the Vikings are covering $6 million ( http://www.startribune.com/met-council- ... 351929931/ )

The Vikings ship is standard NFL stadium kitsch that tends to be popular with fans and kids. The legacy bricks are popular enough that the Vikings are going to extend the production run. The HVAC positioning was a business decision. There is nothing that the Wilf’s are doing that is outside standard fare for an NFL franchise. The Minnesota Vikings, like all the NFL teams, are for profit ventures. Then again, so are the Twins, Timberwolves, and Wild.

“All these things add up to the idea” that there is a lot of petty irrational dislike mascaraing as something else.
Look I'm not going to get into a long protracted argument with you litigating every detail of what the team did or didn't do as it relates to DTE. Honestly I just don't care that much, it' s a sports team not world peace. I was simply trying to explain why some people aren't completely in love with everything the team as done. You clearly have your point of view that you are entitled to just like everyone else can, it's simply that we disagree, which is allowed.

If you go back and read my post you will note that I never said the Vikings did anything illegal or wrong I simply laid out multiple cases where the team put it's on bottomline ahead of the needs of DTE. There is nothing illegal about that but when you allow that perception to exist the team shouldn't be surprised how people will eventually react.

And to be clear I wasn't accusing the Vikings of bribing or intimidating the MSFA over the parking ramp. Simply because the MSFA held the team's position doesn't mean they were bribed or intimidated.

Wedgeguy
Capella Tower
Posts: 3785
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 6:59 am

Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Wedgeguy » March 11th, 2016, 8:39 am

Most entrepreneurs build on a business with their own money and some borrowed money. So most would not define PSL and naming rights as real sources of borrowing. Again someone else's money is paying for the stadium and you are not paying them back with interest like others who borrow money do. You are basically reloading with that money until the stadium is completed. Us taxpayers we pay interest on those bonds that we sold to help pay our portion. So please don't say that they are paying for much of the stadium, When they are paying no interest or out of their own personal accounts, finally they are doing a small fraction of the total, but much less than 5 % for amenities to try and out do other teams for the game day experience.

When it comes to the Commons. If they only had 16 day 2 days for each home game that would be one thing. but when they and the MSFA have something like 40 + days, then it stops being a public park and it becomes a profit source for those organizations. That is why so many are pissed and why so few have donated to the park. When you have someone that is making money off something and not really paying above the 16 days that was the initial tailgating was the reason for the so called park. The Commons is now a profit center where they will pay no rent for the maintenance and upkeep of the park. Seeing they no longer have the soccer team even as a part of the deal, they either need to renegotiate or be looked upon as freeloaders on the taxpayers dollar. The rest of the people and organization that are donating money do not get privileges to park use. So I sure as h*ll don't see where they think their contribution is prepayment for future use while others are giving for the betterment of the dt community. Just my point of view.


Return to “Minneapolis - Downtown”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests