U.S. Bank Stadium

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LakeCharles
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby LakeCharles » March 11th, 2016, 8:38 pm

I wonder if the Wilfs/Vikings could do anything that VikingFanInMaryland would disapprove of. Or if there was any way I could disapprove of anything the Wilfs do without being an anti-Semitic, petty, irrational, self-important, venomous, vicious, hyper-reactive dolt (those are just a few of the insults he's hurled at us so far).

VikingFaninMaryland
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby VikingFaninMaryland » March 11th, 2016, 10:12 pm

MNdible wrote:Huh. Is it possible that being a billionaire sports team owner isn't the way to become a beloved public figure? That somehow, people just don't identify with them and appreciate everything that they're doing for the little people? As improbable as that sounds, it just might be true, and perhaps said billionaires shouldn't purchase a sports team if they're going to be thin-skinned about it. Even if they have the foresight to hire a PR wizard like Lester Bagley.
LakeCharles wrote:I wonder if the Wilfs/Vikings could do anything that VikingFanInMaryland would disapprove of. Or if there was any way I could disapprove of anything the Wilfs do without being an anti-Semitic, petty, irrational, self-important, venomous, vicious, hyper-reactive dolt (those are just a few of the insults he's hurled at us so far).
Just to be clear, we’ve just established that your dislike of the Wilf’s is primarily based on the likes and dislikes you brought into the discussion of the Wilfs and, at best, is only secondarily related to the actual decisions the Wilfs made, which are pretty standard fare for such large-scale NFL stadium projects - save that he opened his checkbook for this project. I certainly don’t think they are looking for appreciation or approval from you so you won’t have to worry about that.

For LakeCharles, I did not make any accusations that the comments were anti-Semitic, I only agreed that they obviously were when one of your co-deriders volunteered it. Hmmm! I wonder why there was such a need to defend against an accusation that was not made nor suggested. Maybe recognition was beginning to set in?

I don’t have a problem with the Wilfs. I think they are doing reasonably good job of improving the franchise although I think it took a while for them to figure out the NFL. There are decisions they made that I agree with and ones I’m not so sure of. I don’t care for the HVAC along the front end for example. But that is their business decision to make. But my likes / dislikes of the Vikings owners does not go beyond what I would think of other sports owners. They are pretty low key owners.

My comments concerning the petty, irrational, venomous, hyper-reactive dislike of the Wilfs don’t stem from my liking of the Wilfs but rather of the unseemliness and ugliness of those comments that are compounded by the doubling down on them by masking them in overwrought criticisms of normal decisions undertaken in the normal course of business. Nobody has a problem with Twins Way, why would they. Its the Minnesota Twins, its their digs. Its the home team. Nobody ever complained because why would anyone. Its harmless fun.

So when hyper critical comments objecting to Viking Way are made, the starkness of the contrast is palpable to non-invested readers. When the justifications are concocted for such militant disagreement - when they continue by seeking bizarrely beauro-technical arguments of naming policies, etc, the petty meanness simply pops all over the place.

Yet every discussion of the Wilfs in this and a related forum goes down this line consistently and predictable. Its thinly veiled passive-aggressive hostility. And thats what I’m calling out. And as this string has played out over the last day or so, I certainly stand by it.

BigIdeasGuy
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby BigIdeasGuy » March 11th, 2016, 11:11 pm

VikingFaninMaryland wrote:BigIdeasGuy,

Of course your “not going to get into a protracted argument,” you can’t win on the facts. My point is that there is very little beside irrational venomous dislike driving the dislike of the Wilfs and it oozes from this forum and its unseemly.

Just so you know, as someone who actually is a member of the bar in good standing, when you accuse a private entity of imposing undue influence in the decision making of a governing entity in the execution of its lawful authority, you are making accusations of corruption - not the least because you told me that if I think otherwise that there is land in Arizona you’d like to sell me. Incidentally, the Wilfs asking the MSFA to hold Ryan to the terms of the development agreement does not constitute undue pressure.

You dramatically understated the Wilfs investment in the new park, failed to note that the Vikings are paying 70% of the air bridge which was a people mover/public safety concern, that Wilfs are covering the entire cost of the green space between U.S. Bank Stadium and the park, or that one reason the Vikings won rights to use the new park is that they gave up ownership of a portion of it in the deal and bargained for retained usage rights. Also, as the calendar of events turn to the getting the park done, don’t be surprised if the Vikings contribute even more money as part of some negotiation strategy in which they get something in exchange.

Yes, the Wilfs are in the business of making money, but their business strategy with regard to the new stadium is to ensure a maximum return on investment by not sparing any expense in making the U.S. Bank Stadium an elite word class stadium and they have put up tens and hundreds of millions to ensure the this happens - above and beyond what their initial commitment was - after the initial commitment was made.

As regards the Vikings, the Wilfs, to date have a record of driving hard bargains but also have one of fully performing on their end and, and with the Stadium, substantially outperforming. In their negotiations, however, sight should not be lost that they are simply bargaining for what is in line with what other NFL teams negotiate - be it street naming, naming rights, control of branding. They did not get these in negotiations because they were bullies, they got them because that’s what sports franchises get as part of the package. When the street is renamed Viking Way, it will be a public event where crowds will be clapping, Bud Grant et al will speak of the Viking’s legacy, and most will be wondering WTF your real problem is with such an obvious no-brainer as the new street designation.

OBTW - the Vikings wouldn’t be doing it as a marketing campaign or out of vanity, it would be because that is the actual theme of the area.

It is in this light that the carping against the Wilfs for profoundly petty reasons over a sustained period takes on noticeable pathological form.

Yes, I am calling into question “how people will begin to react” - but not among the masses but rather just in this forum.

So an NFL sports franchise is going to surround their stadium marquee with a team image - here a Viking ship, and use their own money to do so. I’m shocked! (Not really,!) The Viking sail marquee is rather clever as these things go, there will be a lot of national and international media space allocated to covering it, and it will win awards for creative originality. You and what horde are going to rise up in righteous indignation when they christen it?

On all the heightened concern, hyper distinguishing of the naming of the road , and all the faux deep thinking policy ramifications (“could you try to articulate the difference … blah, blah, blah), you really run the risk of coming across as self-important dolts. Yet, this is simply the cost of riding a venomous irrational dislike of a person to the point where one has to take heightened exception to everything they do to the point of arguing the ridiculous and coming across that way as a consequence.
First the reason I don't want to get into an argument over this is because I just simply don't care that much. We are talking about renaming three blocks of a street. I really have no desire to go 10 rounds about policy implications or trying to articulate differences because I just don't care. From the beginning I'm made it rather clear that no matter what happens I don't care about the outcome. The only reason I responded in the first place was not to try to convince you that your point of view is wrong but simply why someone else may have had a different one. We are all entitled to our own point of view and we don't have to agree on the conclusions that we make.

Second I never said the team put undue pressure on the MFSA simply that I really doubt that MFSA would have held that position so strongly without at least an email from Lester Bagley which, in my mind, is clearly not undue pressure. As far as I know the team just like anyone else is free to lobby the MFSA.

Third you left out the part where the Vikings are receiving revenue from the LRT station as part of the deal of helping pay for the bridge. And for the record I don't care if the bridge gets built or not, there are perfectly valid arguments on both sides. As for the Vikings ship just like the team is allowed to spend money on it I am also allowed to think it's tacky and you're allowed to think it's cool. I don't think there needs to be a horde raised when the christen it, I simply think it's kinda tacky.

Fourth I've actually defended the Wilf's wanting to make money if you look at my prior posts. There is nothing illegal about that, in fact they can drive all the hard deals they want. I can't fault them for wanting to make a good deal for the team and trying to protect the value of the stadium. But in the end when if you constantly are insistent on getting every little thing you can and never giving anything up for the sake of being a good partner it's hard to be super surprised when people aren't in love with you.

Fifth I get that for you the well being of the team is most important and likely only thing you are worried about. That's fine, nothing says you have to care about DTE or the Commons. Just like someone else doesn't have to care about the team but can care about DTE, that's also equally as fine. All I ask is that you just admit that it's even remotely possible for someone to have a different point of view than you have. While your love for the team is seemingly best defined as Gerbshmidt-esque personally I'm pretty neutral about the team I hope they win a bunch of games I've been burned by them too many times to emotionally invest anymore.

Last point I don't anyone on this board opposition to the Wilf's is because they are antisemitic. Honestly it's pretty insulting that you would jump to that conclusion. Nor do I think for most people the opposition is venomous or pathological, certainly isn't for me.

Either way I'm done with this conversation. I feel like I've made my point clearly and respectfully, just like you have. If you feel like you need to respond go ahead, I won't be.

David Greene
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby David Greene » March 11th, 2016, 11:27 pm

VikingFaninMaryland wrote:Having said that, however, to your point, yes, it screams anti-Semitism.
Quick, find out who from this board is using VikingFan as an alias. We'll have unmasked yankee99.


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Wedgeguy
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Wedgeguy » March 11th, 2016, 11:32 pm

Did not even know that the Wilf's were Jewish, But I'm not keen on people who are given yard and then look to get a mile out of the deal. I have no problem with the stadium deal, but the over need for Commons time and the MSFA is pure BS and if they really wanted to get out from under this deluge of bad publicity, they would cut the number of day they have the park by half and the MSFA, who I still don't think that they need any days would get a dozen tops, or 3 weekend. They have the ball in their court. They can keep those date and then they can have to deal with the public blow back and lack of help from other donors.

nate
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby nate » March 13th, 2016, 10:46 am

I know the board has been dying for my opinion on the topic, so here goes: changing the name of the street is dumb. I don't care that the Twins did it, I don't care that other NFL teams do it. I find it dumb.

I find the team's rationale for the change - that Chicago Ave is the name of a rival - is even dumber than the name change itself.

Add to this the fact that the Vikings gave gotten everything they asked for: public money for the stadium, parking ramps, parks, a bridge to the LRT platform, the silly Viking ship.

It is a symbolic point that is utterly meaningless in the grand scheme of things, but giving them their street name just because they asked is kind of humiliating.

Now, if the City wants to use the fact that the project is nearly done and the team is fully committed to the site as leverage for selling the naming rights, then I say go for it. (as long as the sum is properly preposterous and humiliating, say, a million bucks for every season the team has failed to win the Super Bowl)

John21
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby John21 » March 13th, 2016, 12:07 pm


VikingFaninMaryland
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby VikingFaninMaryland » March 13th, 2016, 1:35 pm


grant1simons2
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby grant1simons2 » March 13th, 2016, 2:57 pm

Oh. My. God.

Get used to it, we're Minnesotans.

min-chi-cbus
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby min-chi-cbus » March 13th, 2016, 6:48 pm

VikingFaninMaryland wrote:
Passive-Agressive drek.
Original drek.

seanrichardryan
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby seanrichardryan » March 13th, 2016, 9:12 pm

Fox9 news it's expected to pass on Tuesday. Time to lobby your planning commission members.
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

J2K
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby J2K » March 13th, 2016, 9:18 pm

Think small Minnesotans. This is the most iconic building ever built in the city.
We love our cheap Nic on 5th and 4matq so much, don't we.
Please.
Nothing will ever be built over 800 ft in this town. I love the new stadium replacing the embarrassment that was the metrodome. A great improvement to the city. Why all the hate? Every major city, which most on this board dream to emulate, have a proper stadium. Mpls is simply catching up with the Jones'

Zaptons67
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Zaptons67 » March 14th, 2016, 3:00 am

Why is the address just not switched over to the cross street of 4th? :?:

Mikey
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Mikey » March 14th, 2016, 6:31 am

Or the ceremonial Bud Grant Way they already re-named south of the stadium?
Urbanist in the north woods

Drizzay
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Drizzay » March 14th, 2016, 8:02 am

Only 8 more sections of seats are left to be installed. That should be done by the end of the week. They still have a lot of the glass railing to put in, though.

Anyone have an idea as to when they will pour the flooring? I heard it is supposed to be some type of asphalt, not concrete.

Minneboy
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Minneboy » March 14th, 2016, 8:34 am

If anything all the roads around the stadium should be changed to rival teams or possibly Chicago will change it's name in accordance to the team that's played that week but the rest of the year remain Chicago. Sort of as a tribute to the rival being on the road and then send em packing.

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby VacantLuxuries » March 14th, 2016, 8:43 am

If anything all the roads around the stadium should be changed to rival teams
That's perfect - our rivals run circles around us.

amiller92
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby amiller92 » March 14th, 2016, 8:46 am

VikingFaninMaryland wrote: My point is that there is very little beside irrational venomous dislike driving the dislike of the Wilfs and it oozes from this forum and its unseemly.
I don't know why you feel the need to fight this fight here, but if you're going to carry on you need to at least accept that lots of people aren't happy about public stadium financing and that's not irrational or venomous.

Which I say as someone who supported public funding for the stadium.

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Nathan
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Nathan » March 14th, 2016, 8:56 am

amiller92 wrote:
VikingFaninMaryland wrote: My point is that there is very little beside irrational venomous dislike driving the dislike of the Wilfs and it oozes from this forum and its unseemly.
I don't know why you feel the need to fight this fight here, but if you're going to carry on you need to at least accept that lots of people aren't happy about public stadium financing and that's not irrational or venomous.

Which I say as someone who supported public funding for the stadium.

And to add to that, to impose the view of a few posters of this forum to the entire board is silly. Plenty of people aren't participating in this conversation. I do think the Wilfs could have built a stadium on their own (or with considerably less subsidy), but I'm also not overly upset that some public money went into it (I think the state and it's residents will get quite a bit of use out of this new structure). Plenty of people here just aren't passionate enough to type out a response when the few overly zealous stadium haters get to posting.

Can everyone here just take the super super overly opinionated rhetoric out of their comments? If you don't like it state why, if you do, state why, there doesn't need to be name calling or attacks, it's a stadium, it's months from completion. end of conversation for like 30-50 years.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Wedgeguy » March 14th, 2016, 10:29 am

Nathan, I think that I have always stated why I'm against some aspects of the give me give me of the Vikings. I like having the stadium. I'm and others are just tired of the several trips thru the soup line that the Vikings seem to want to take to get more for nothing. The street was Chicago all thru the Metrodome days, and it did not seem to bother people then, and nothing frankly has change in all of these years. It can stay Chicago so that we have constancy with our street names.

They are the type of customer that is driving Old Country Buffet to bankruptcy, continuous trips to fill up and just think that they can see if they can get another trip in yet again before all the gravy money is lost and not available anymore.


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