U.S. Bank Stadium

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Archiapolis
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Archiapolis » March 14th, 2016, 11:21 am

Wedgeguy wrote:Nathan, I think that I have always stated why I'm against some aspects of the give me give me of the Vikings. I like having the stadium. I'm and others are just tired of the several trips thru the soup line that the Vikings seem to want to take to get more for nothing. The street was Chicago all thru the Metrodome days, and it did not seem to bother people then, and nothing frankly has change in all of these years. It can stay Chicago so that we have constancy with our street names.

They are the type of customer that is driving Old Country Buffet to bankruptcy, continuous trips to fill up and just think that they can see if they can get another trip in yet again before all the gravy money is lost and not available anymore.
As streets/"urbanist" geeks outnumber architects pretty significantly on this board, I'd just like to throw out a "layperson" (not a streets geek) perspective...I don't care AT ALL if/when these stadiums want to change one block of street. If I'm driving/bicycling/walking down Chicago and get to this street, I'm not going to drive off the road because the street name changed. I'm going to traverse that block, then get to the next corner and see that it is still Chicago and keep moving. I just backtracked a couple of pages to verify because I couldn't believe it but I guess people really are stressing about "street naming continuity?!" I know that this thread is generally anti-stadium and I get all of the arguments but are we going to fight every last thing associated with this stadium? I didn't read every word of every post associated with this. It *seems* like we are talking about a few street signs but maybe there are major cost implications here that I'm not seeing. I stand ready to be enlightened but put me down as currently not caring one whit about this street name.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby David Greene » March 14th, 2016, 11:39 am

Archiapolis wrote:It *seems* like we are talking about a few street signs but maybe there are major cost implications here that I'm not seeing. I stand ready to be enlightened but put me down as currently not caring one whit about this street name.
What about all of the maps in existence? It may not seem like much but now you've got to put out new GIS data, companies have to grab that and update maps, etc. etc. Most of that cost will be borne by the private sector but it's still a cost imposed on other companies by the Vikings. It is in fact another subsidy to the Vikings, though of a different nature than the stadium itself.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby min-chi-cbus » March 14th, 2016, 11:47 am

Wouldn't that also be true due to the existence of the new stadium and name (at least with maps)?

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby David Greene » March 14th, 2016, 12:24 pm

min-chi-cbus wrote:Wouldn't that also be true due to the existence of the new stadium and name (at least with maps)?
Yes, I suppose that is true.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby FISHMANPET » March 14th, 2016, 12:33 pm

That assumes that the vast majority of geospatial data is used to make maps, which I don't think is the case.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Nathan » March 14th, 2016, 1:10 pm

Ok, but the road name was changed back to Chicago from something else in the last few years... right? Kirby Puckett Pl? Who's fault is it that those changes had to be made? Should they not have tried to come up with what the memorial street name was going to be at that time? Shouldn't they have re-re-named the street in the first place, when all the streets in that area are changing shape and orientation anyways? Isn't a lot of change in a rapidly developing area expected in GIS?

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Archiapolis » March 14th, 2016, 1:12 pm

min-chi-cbus wrote:Wouldn't that also be true due to the existence of the new stadium and name (at least with maps)?
I was going to take this tack. Cities are changing all of the time and thus maps have to change. The comeback to that would be that this is an "unnecessary" change. I just have a hard time believing there is very much expense involved. There is a going to be a giant stylized viking ship dominating this area of town, with a million "viking" things associated with it; what harm does one more do? I completely understand people who have drawn their principled line way over there and the reality is well past that line - those people are going to fight ANYTHING additional that is "Vikings" related. I'm not trying to talk anyone out of fighting this street name change but I wonder if this were a street renaming happening anywhere else for any other purpose would it be opposed as vehemently.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby FISHMANPET » March 14th, 2016, 1:14 pm

Nathan wrote:Ok, but the road name was changed back to Chicago from something else in the last few years... right? Kirby Puckett Pl? Who's fault is it that those changes had to be made? Should they not have tried to come up with what the memorial street name was going to be at that time? Shouldn't they have re-re-named the street in the first place, when all the streets in that area are changing shape and orientation anyways? Isn't a lot of change in a rapidly developing area expected in GIS?
For like the THIRD time, Kirby Puckett Pl was a SECONDARY name. The primary name of the street was Chicago Ave. The vikings want to change the PRIMARY name of the street and remove the Chicago Ave name.

This would not be nearly as stupid if they just wanted to change the secondary name from Kirby Puckett Pl to Vikings Way, as that wouldn't have any effect on the actual street grid.
Last edited by FISHMANPET on March 14th, 2016, 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby MNdible » March 14th, 2016, 1:18 pm

The city has a clear and deliberate policy to not have discontinuous street names, and there's a good reason to have such a policy and no good reason to overrule it in this case.

That's my objection to this -- not because I hate the Vikings Stadium (I don't), its public funding (which I hold my nose and accept), or the Wilfs (who are comically ham-fisted and you'll just have to trust me that this isn't the reason why I object).

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Nathan » March 14th, 2016, 1:46 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:
Nathan wrote:Ok, but the road name was changed back to Chicago from something else in the last few years... right? Kirby Puckett Pl? Who's fault is it that those changes had to be made? Should they not have tried to come up with what the memorial street name was going to be at that time? Shouldn't they have re-re-named the street in the first place, when all the streets in that area are changing shape and orientation anyways? Isn't a lot of change in a rapidly developing area expected in GIS?
For like the THIRD time, Kirby Puckett Pl was a SECONDARY name. The primary name of the street was Chicago Ave. The vikings want to change the PRIMARY name of the street and remove the Chicago Ave name.

This would not be nearly as stupid if they just wanted to change the secondary name from Kirby Puckett Pl to Vikings Way, as that wouldn't have any effect on the actual street grid.
My apologies for not going back through 3+ pages of arguments about the Wilfs and Antisemitism and corporate welfare and general name calling to get to those three times, but thanks for clarifying and taking the time to bold.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Archiapolis » March 14th, 2016, 1:51 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:
For like the THIRD time, Kirby Puckett Pl was a SECONDARY name. The primary name of the street was Chicago Ave. The vikings want to change the PRIMARY name of the street and remove the Chicago Ave name.

This would not be nearly as stupid if they just wanted to change the secondary name from Kirby Puckett Pl to Vikings Way, as that wouldn't have any effect on the actual street grid.
A. Just curious...How many people out of 1000 do you suppose understand this distinction? Of that number, how many would object to the "primary" versus the "secondary" name being changed?

B. What MnDible said. I'm kind of a "rule follower" so I at least understand this inclination but I'm not going to go to war over it - feel free to continue.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby FISHMANPET » March 14th, 2016, 2:08 pm

I think a lot of people are just thinking "oh it's the same as when it was named Kirby Puckett Pl (it technically still has that name) so what's the problem?" but it's not just like that. It is in fact completely different. And sadly I think this is going to generally shake out as people that support that stadium and the team will support the renaming and those that don't like the team or stadium won't support the renaming.

But there are implications to this renaming that have nothing to do with this team. I have no idea why the Vikings need the primary name of the street changed and not the commemorative name changed.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby moda253 » March 14th, 2016, 2:15 pm

David Greene wrote:
Archiapolis wrote:It *seems* like we are talking about a few street signs but maybe there are major cost implications here that I'm not seeing. I stand ready to be enlightened but put me down as currently not caring one whit about this street name.
What about all of the maps in existence? It may not seem like much but now you've got to put out new GIS data, companies have to grab that and update maps, etc. etc. Most of that cost will be borne by the private sector but it's still a cost imposed on other companies by the Vikings. It is in fact another subsidy to the Vikings, though of a different nature than the stadium itself.

You cannot be serious shirley.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby LakeCharles » March 14th, 2016, 2:16 pm

MNdible wrote:The city has a clear and deliberate policy to not have discontinuous street names, and there's a good reason to have such a policy and no good reason to overrule it in this case.

That's my objection to this -- not because I hate the Vikings Stadium (I don't), its public funding (which I hold my nose and accept), or the Wilfs (who are comically ham-fisted and you'll just have to trust me that this isn't the reason why I object).
This is my opposition. The cities policies specifically state we shouldn't do this. So you have to have a pretty compelling reason to change it, not just "It won't cost that much, so why not?"

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Didier » March 14th, 2016, 4:02 pm

For what it's worth, the news articles I've seen written don't do a good job of making clear the distinction Fish Man Pet highlights. If it wasn't for this site I wouldn't have known that.

As I've said before, though, if a ceremonial name is official enough to be used for an address, not sure why they wouldn't just stick with ceremonial here.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby grant1simons2 » March 14th, 2016, 4:04 pm

The Vikings just got roasted by Sam Rockwell.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby FISHMANPET » March 14th, 2016, 4:09 pm

And the name change was unanimously denied by the CPC. Ironically the commissioners made many of the same arguments I made here as well.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby twinkess » March 14th, 2016, 4:10 pm

Anyone else here? Or just watching on TV?

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby grant1simons2 » March 14th, 2016, 4:11 pm

I'm here! Staying to watch the Walgreens mess.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby twinkess » March 14th, 2016, 4:12 pm

In the back in the red sweater


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