urbanMSP

final renderings:
http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/phot ... a180#start

Something I had not noticed in the early renderings is that there will be small 3-5 row sections coming down from the upper concourse the entire way around the stadium. Including in front of the large window/doors that give the view of the skyline. I was expecting that to be an unobstructed view out. I wonder if this will break up the view too much?

It took me a minute to see what you're talking about. That will obstruct the view a bit for sure, but it's a cool feature and definitely worth it IMO.

A little "Green Monster" seats, esque. I like that they're giving it some unique features and character.

It also allows for a continuous concourse at the upper level. Makes circulation quite a bit easier, methinks.

This actually may be related to the news that the Rollerdome skating, etc. would continue in the new stadium. This basically requires full circuit concourses.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 2277214350

What's up with the big images of Adrian P. on the outer walls that have been on the renderings from day 1? They're not permanent, I'm hoping. I mean, he's a great running back and all, but....

Crikey the plaza in front of this is humungous. I fear it may be as charming as Albany's Empire State Plaza (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_BAsoDFpqKII/T ... -09-06.jpg)

What's up with the big images of Adrian P. on the outer walls that have been on the renderings from day 1? They're not permanent, I'm hoping. I mean, he's a great running back and all, but....

If I remember correctly, the plan is to use MediaMesh in those spots. It's basically a gigantic digital screen that is largely invisible against the wall behind it. Could either be really cool or really obnoxious. I'm hoping for the former, but fearing the latter

Edit: This shows just how transparent it can be. I can't imagine it'll blend into the stadium quite as well as the renderings suggest, but it's certainly a neat trick.

Yikes, you're right, helsinki. Take a look at the Ryan proposal flyover to see how much space it takes up: http://youtu.be/JGHWnjgv_F8?t=18s

Basically it's a 2 block long, half-block wide mega plaza, adjacent to another plaza surrounding the LRT station, adjacent to a 2 block park. I know this is mixing 2 threads/discussions, but I'm really questioning the need for as much park/plaza space as is proposed by Ryan and the new People's Stadium. I know one of the major design elements of the stadium is the view of the skyline, but that's so much open space. Developing on top of the underground parking garage on the LRT block, and even potentially leaving the Star Tribune building (tearing out the added-on stuff and building more) would go a long way toward making this whole area much more lively...

Do y'all remember that ribbony rendering that was tossed around for ages before the final versions were passed down? I liked the grace and beauty of that one and found it relatively soft on the neighborhood. When I saw what's really going to be built, I believe my gut reaction was "an exercise in megalomania", by which I meant that a bunch of grown up little boys just couldn't resist the temptation to shout, "Hey! Look at how important and powerful I am!" I gotta say that time hasn't made the design wear easier on me. Sure, it could be uglier, but it's just too damn overwhelming.

Of course, done is done, but now my concern is that that same grandiosity will carry through to the plaza and park. That's why I would have been more comfortable with an intimate, one-block park a la Mears or Rice Park in St. Paul. Anyone else feeling the same way?

I'm really questioning the need for as much park/plaza space

There will often be 65,000 people exiting the building all at once. Thousands of which will stream through those massive west-facing doors, likely at a rate faster than what occurs at the Metrodome or Target Field. It helps to have a landing pad for all the bodies. So I think the plaza has to be sort of big.

The ribbon building would have looked out of place in a few short years the same as the dome did. Additionally it was a concept drawing which may or may not have even been possible to build the way it was drawn up. Also, the materials and the lines of that drawing had nothing to tie into the existing neighborhood. HCMC, and other buildings have hard surfaces some of which are concrete and putting that billowy looking building would have looked just as out of place as the metrodome.

While the style of architecture that was chosen doesn't exist in the immediate area there are some buildings of that type in the area, The U of M building in stadium village (name escapes me) The library and Twins ballpark though a different stone type have similar angles and use of glass. I think that further development could introduce more of this styling into the area without disrupting what already exists.

DTE is still ripe for redevelopment, I just don't know that the ribbon concept would have A) fit into the existing neighborhood well or that it could have spurred other development to integrate with it and the neighborhood.

I'm really questioning the need for as much park/plaza space

There will often be 65,000 people exiting the building all at once. Thousands of which will stream through those massive west-facing doors, likely at a rate faster than what occurs at the Metrodome or Target Field. It helps to have a landing pad for all the bodies. So I think the plaza has to be sort of big.

8 times a year is often?

I'm really questioning the need for as much park/plaza space

8 times a year is often?

Well, it's 10, not 8 for NFL football, and don't forget all the other events that occur even currently at the Dome. Several events are there every single week.

8 times a year is often?

I think 10 times a year is often enough that it'd be wise to make allowances for tens of thousands pedestrians, yes.

these final renderings show more glass on the downtown face front. glass extended from ground to roof and all the way to the right. that was zinc cladding in the earlier renderings.

8 regular season games at home per year. Anyone convincing themselves that preseason games have more than 30-35k in the stands are kidding themselves. I think the video on this page shows an average crowd: http://www.vikings.com/news/article-1/V ... 9c8762f7a3 Also, we have played exactly 3 home playoff games in the last 13 years (2000-2012 seasons). Given NFL parity, playoff structure, and the likelihood of post-season victories, it'd be unwise to assume anything more than a home game every other year.

For reference, the plaza outside the open end of TCF, which has 2 massive staircases leading to it not to mention giant gates that open up for exiting fans, is 1.75 acres (7 home games per year, 50,000 capacity design). The proposed Vikings plaza is roughly 3 acres. Both stadiums have other exits around the building and are surrounded by parking/sidewalk.

I guess my point wasn't that the plaza itself is overkill, it's that it's a very large plaza adjacent to another 1+acre plaza adjacent to a proposed 2 block park. Seems like a lot of open space, and call me crazy for thinking that designing the public realm to handle peak human capacity 8(to 10) times a year is a bit like designing parking lots to handle day after Thanksgiving demand.

That new front rendering looks significantly worse -- due to the increased opacity of the glass. I guess they did this to better represent what it will actually look like. Yuck.

Size comparison of stadium and armory.