U.S. Bank Stadium

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amiller92
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby amiller92 » February 16th, 2016, 10:27 am

Public money for the stadium is an indirect subsidy to the downtown hospitality businesses. Don't undermine it by making it easy for suburban fans to bring their own food and drink into the city.

And suburban fans: how about patronizing downtown businesses as a "thank you" for the city of Minneapolis helping build your team a new facility?

moda253
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby moda253 » February 16th, 2016, 10:34 am

amiller92 wrote:Public money for the stadium is an indirect subsidy to the downtown hospitality businesses. Don't undermine it by making it easy for suburban fans to bring their own food and drink into the city.

And suburban fans: how about patronizing downtown businesses as a "thank you" for the city of Minneapolis helping build your team a new facility?

Many of those suburbanites didn't want it in the city so I doubt you are going to get too many thank you's.

Look it isn't like this was a big secret. This is a major "thing" in the NFL world. Whether it makes sense to others or not. People fought the idea of it being in the burbs tooth and nail. We wanted to make good on all the infrastructure that has been developed in downtown. Which was smart. But this is a "thing" in the nfl and you can't just expect that the fans are going to readily accept changing their gameday traditions. It might happen over time but you had to know going in that putting an NFL stadium downtown was going to result in people wanting to preserve lots for tailgating.

acs
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby acs » February 16th, 2016, 10:43 am

Tailgating is also a "thing" in baseball too but that didn't stop the twins from building at an urban site and developing the surrounding area. We didn't preserve the north loop as surface lots just for twins fans and we won't do it for the Vikings. Target field is an example of how to do things right for the team, the fans and the city.

min-chi-cbus
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby min-chi-cbus » February 16th, 2016, 10:52 am

It makes no sense for the owners of these surface lots to hold them just for tailgating purposes, and if a developer comes by with a bid to buy the lot, the lot will get redeveloped.....even if it's THE tailgating lot.

I'm not worried about it......unless the lot is owned/managed by the Vikings.

amiller92
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby amiller92 » February 16th, 2016, 11:27 am

moda253 wrote:It might happen over time but you had to know going in that putting an NFL stadium downtown was going to result in people wanting to preserve lots for tailgating.
Sure, and the city has to say, "no." We're already paying enough for this stadium. We don't need to further subsidize it be keeping surface parking lots around it.

moda253
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby moda253 » February 16th, 2016, 3:47 pm

amiller92 wrote:
moda253 wrote:It might happen over time but you had to know going in that putting an NFL stadium downtown was going to result in people wanting to preserve lots for tailgating.
Sure, and the city has to say, "no." We're already paying enough for this stadium. We don't need to further subsidize it be keeping surface parking lots around it.
Well of course. I'm just saying let's not act like this wasn't a concern. It absolutely was something that has been talked about throughout the entire story of this stadium from the get go.

True enough that if there is a developer that comes along and wants to develop a lot it will get developed. BUt to be honest with you I don't mind SOME open parking lots in the city. I know there is a bit of a fantasy on these forums where everyone will take public transportation or ride their bicycle to work but that's not really going to happen in the very near future if ever at all. However the tailgaters may be a friendly group to that fantasy as they will likely find lots up and down the light rail lines where business owners with surface lots will look to cash in on some game day money.

However, I'm sure that we will hear about drunken football fans crowding the light rail trains along with the noise and the hoo-ha of the party atmosphere in locations closer to neighborhoods. The UofM should continue to allow fans to park on their lots if there is nothing going on there on Sundays. Perfect lots for tailgating and there is a light rail station close by.


As for the comment about baseball and tailgating.... no I'm sorry it isn't even close to the same thing. Yes *some* people do tailgate for baseball but it isn't nearly comparable. Even in KC the baseball tailgating isn't the same. Baseball has always been an urban game. the reason why ballparks have quirky dimensions and strange structures is because they were often shoe horned into their neighborhoods. Of course in the modern day some parks have been built differently with a sea of parking lots surrounding them but thankfully we avoided that.

amiller92
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby amiller92 » February 16th, 2016, 3:54 pm

moda253 wrote:BUt to be honest with you I don't mind SOME open parking lots in the city.
I do. They make us poorer. They could be something of higher value (including multi-level parking!). They could be something other than dead spots that break up active areas.
I know there is a bit of a fantasy on these forums where everyone will take public transportation or ride their bicycle to work but that's not really going to happen in the very near future if ever at all.
It's certainly not going to happen if we have policies that make keeping surface parking lots attractive.

But even as is, what percentage of parking happens on in surface lots, rather than structures? It can't be much.

Regardless, there's a difference between an argument for parking - which you've made - and a argument for a surface lot - which you haven't.

gopherfan
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby gopherfan » February 16th, 2016, 11:28 pm

The great MPLS parking Dilemma, said no one ever... oh wait.

http://www.kare11.com/sports/vikings-ta ... a/45011059

VikingFaninMaryland
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby VikingFaninMaryland » February 17th, 2016, 12:28 am

There does seem to be a bit of sound and fury to all this concern.

I think the Vikings are going to do what they need to do to bring some fans along. But I also think that as the area develops, with hotels, restaurants, a large urban park, and a revamped entertainment oriented Armory, the normal urban trajectory will be for beer tents, burgers, wings and brats (etc) along with pub crawls. It will be the urban equivalent with the sports bars putting up tents, etc. Some sports fan clubs rent banquet areas close to the stadium, some bars become notorious for certain groups, etc.

But not just "suburban" fans, the Vikings actually draw from a large area that extends into the Dakotas, Iowa, and even parts of W. Wisconsin.

Wedgeguy
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Wedgeguy » February 17th, 2016, 8:26 am

I look at it this way, the price to tailgate will go up big time as the limited number of lots will be charging BIG bucks for those that are willing to pay. You thought parking was expensive now for games I see it going up more, especially for surface lots for those that want to tailgate. Thank to Trader Joe's, 800 Washington, and the Moxy there will be few lots close to the stadium. I see tailgating lots having a price tag of over $25 dollar to make up for what they could get for development.

Mikey
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Mikey » February 17th, 2016, 10:57 am

Heck, the last time I went to a Vikings game (free tickets to Favre's first pre-season game vs Green Bay in 2009), it was already $20 at 11th and 2nd St. Tailgate lots are gonna easily be $50 plus
Urbanist in the north woods

Wedgeguy
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Wedgeguy » February 17th, 2016, 10:59 am

Mikey wrote:Heck, the last time I went to a Vikings game (free tickets to Farve's first pre-season game vs Green Bay in 2009), it was already $20 at 11th and 2nd St. Tailgate lots are gonna easily be $50 plus
I'll very much agree with you. Anything close will be premium priced.

Especially when that $50 could be better spent at establishments that will be closer to the stadium.

acs
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby acs » February 17th, 2016, 11:07 am

According to the Strib article, while regular parking was handled by the individual lot owners it seemed like the Vikings centrally handled tailgating. They mentioned they had contracted with the lot owners within the city allowed tailgating area and then turned around and charged the fans upwards of 400 for a full year license. Still, the team was losing money on the star tribune lots which eventually became the WF towers. One of the lot owners said they made about 8 grand a year off the tailgaters and team. It seems like a lose-lose-lose all around to keep continuing this IMO.

mattaudio
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby mattaudio » February 17th, 2016, 11:56 am

My take? The Vikings are blowing smoke on this to appease their hardcore fans who wish they could tailgate. The Vikings are looking busy to earn points with one segment of their core customer base. But in the end they realize tailgating in a growing urban environment is lose-lose-lose, as acs suggested. And there's more money to be made by them when fans pregame at Vikings-controlled events near the stadium (such as on the Commons) where they can sell expensive beer, food, and experiences. The Vikings may be interested in working with owners of nearby surface lots until they get developed (and Wilf owns a lot north of 4th, as mentioned) but this would be a very limited space purely to propagate the "Culture of Tailgating" as part of the gameday experience, more than tailgating as a widespread activity on gamedays.

Didier
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Didier » February 17th, 2016, 12:01 pm

I actually agree with Matt on this one.

MNdible
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby MNdible » February 17th, 2016, 2:15 pm

Yep, I think that's a pretty astute read.


Zaptons67
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Zaptons67 » February 18th, 2016, 9:51 am

Couldn't they work out a better long term solution to tailgating? Maybe creating a tailgating parking lot near 28th station like at the Health Partners HQ for the south metro fans. A second lot at the Target North HQ campus, then riders could hop the blue line train (increasing transit numbers) and everybody wins! Target and Health Partners could get positive marketing for being the Official tailgating lots of the Vikings. People can tailgate and enjoy their game day, and downtown residents won't be flooded by a mob of RV's and pickup trucks! Only downside is the decreased parking for both HQ's and the potential need for added security.

Rube Dali
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Rube Dali » February 18th, 2016, 11:01 am

On the webcam, they're removing some of the zinc cladding on the easternmost portion of the north side. Any reason why?
Buildings, what buildings?

moda253
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby moda253 » February 18th, 2016, 11:15 am

Wedgeguy wrote:I look at it this way, the price to tailgate will go up big time as the limited number of lots will be charging BIG bucks for those that are willing to pay. You thought parking was expensive now for games I see it going up more, especially for surface lots for those that want to tailgate. Thank to Trader Joe's, 800 Washington, and the Moxy there will be few lots close to the stadium. I see tailgating lots having a price tag of over $25 dollar to make up for what they could get for development.

A price tag of over 25 dollars???? Yeah in 1987. Parking is a lot more than that now.


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