Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates
Posted: March 10th, 2016, 3:32 pm
Wait, is there a reason people care about this? Was there even a discussion when the Twins did it?
Architecture, Development, and Infrastructure of the Twin Cities
https://urbanmsp.com/
So are we to change the name of a street for a block for any business that wants to do so? Where does it end?Sorry, but this just strikes me as reflexive anti-Wilf complaining, particularly Grant's post.
There's some merit behind the ceremonial vs. actual street name point, but we're still talking about a three-block stretch in which (as far as I can tell) the stadium is the only building affected. If we've made similar changes for other teams, this really shouldn't be that big of a deal.
Well since you seem to regularly speak for everyone on just about everything all the time I guess that's it.So are we to change the name of a street for a block for any business that wants to do so? Where does it end?Sorry, but this just strikes me as reflexive anti-Wilf complaining, particularly Grant's post.
There's some merit behind the ceremonial vs. actual street name point, but we're still talking about a three-block stretch in which (as far as I can tell) the stadium is the only building affected. If we've made similar changes for other teams, this really shouldn't be that big of a deal.
It ends here.
Yes, of course no-one complained when the Twins did it. Who would argue against the brazenly cheesie practice of naming streets around a professional franchise in ways that reflect those teams. Like Twins Way etc. Its all in fun and its popular. Sports branding like this supposed to be cheesie. Its fun.Sorry, but this just strikes me as reflexive anti-Wilf complaining, particularly Grant's post.
There's some merit behind the ceremonial vs. actual street name point, but we're still talking about a three-block stretch in which (as far as I can tell) the stadium is the only building affected. If we've made similar changes for other teams, this really shouldn't be that big of a deal.
Of course it should be named Viking Way and anyone with a sense of humor would easily understand that the language used by the Vikings had a bit of tongue in cheek humor to it. No-one thinks the City of Chicago or the Chicago Bears will lodge a protest unless, of course, its a return tongue and cheek response.
And of course you're most right that this is really only about the vicious, visceral, irrational hatred of the Wilfs. It's unseemly. Its also the passive aggressive side of what many call "Minnesota Nice." This would not even be an issue - naming the street in front of a $1.1 billion stadium (to recognize the local team) where the team owners put up over $500 million - were the owners anyone other than the Wilfs.
From another forum (Downtown East), how else to explain why Ryan is allowed to retain development rights when they have nothing at time when the Wilf's have an actual plan the fits the use parameters of the DT East, the money to do so, and the ability to start in short order. People here cannot even get themselves to admit (recognize) that the only reason DT East is being developed on its current scale is because the Wilfs chose to build there even as it is an objective reality.
I understand your point of view, largely that the city should be thankful for the Vikings are here and helped make DTE and the Commons possible, and that this is a rather minor request the city can do for the team which is a perfectly fine position to have. In fact part of me agrees with idea that this a relatively minor thing, what's the big deal, just do it.Yes, of course no-one complained when the Twins did it. Who would argue against the brazenly cheesie practice of naming streets around a professional franchise in ways that reflect those teams. Like Twins Way etc. Its all in fun and its popular. Sports branding like this supposed to be cheesie. Its fun.Sorry, but this just strikes me as reflexive anti-Wilf complaining, particularly Grant's post.
There's some merit behind the ceremonial vs. actual street name point, but we're still talking about a three-block stretch in which (as far as I can tell) the stadium is the only building affected. If we've made similar changes for other teams, this really shouldn't be that big of a deal.
Of course it should be named Viking Way and anyone with a sense of humor would easily understand that the language used by the Vikings had a bit of tongue in cheek humor to it. No-one thinks the City of Chicago or the Chicago Bears will lodge a protest unless, of course, its a return tongue and cheek response.
And of course you're most right that this is really only about the vicious, visceral, irrational hatred of the Wilfs. It's unseemly. Its also the passive aggressive side of what many call "Minnesota Nice." This would not even be an issue - naming the street in front of a $1.1 billion stadium (to recognize the local team) where the team owners put up over $500 million - were the owners anyone other than the Wilfs.
From another forum (Downtown East), how else to explain why Ryan is allowed to retain development rights when they have nothing at time when the Wilf's have an actual plan the fits the use parameters of the DT East, the money to do so, and the ability to start in short order. People here cannot even get themselves to admit (recognize) that the only reason DT East is being developed on its current scale is because the Wilfs chose to build there even as it is an objective reality.
This comes up a lot, and I get the sentiment, but it's not a great argument. The Vikings are paying for their share of the stadium through revenue they create. That's how pretty much all business works. Wells Fargo is building their two towers with future revenue from their customers too.Their "share" is being paid for by US Bank in the form of naming rights, and by their fans in a sham called PSLs.
I don't understand the sentiment.I understand your point of view, largely that the city should be thankful for the Vikings are here and helped make DTE and the Commons possible, and that this is a rather minor request the city can do for the team which is a perfectly fine position to have. In fact part of me agrees with idea that this a relatively minor thing, what's the big deal, just do it.
But the prevailing point of view here is that the Vikings and the Wilf's actually hurt the overall vision for what the development of DTE and the Commons could be instead of helping it, which is also a perfectly fine position to have. Taking a huge number of days of public use from the Commons then only tossing in a million to help build the park that the team will directly benefit most from really doesn't sit well for a lot of people. The MSFA not allowing Ryan to make changes the parking ramp so they can do a better project, yes I know the Vikings and MSFA are separate entities but if you honestly think that the MSFA weren't taking marching orders from the Vikings on that one I have some ocean front property in Arizona you might be interested in. Add in the bridge over the LRT tracks, the half-cool/half-tacky viking ship with a video board screen, the legacy bricks, even the ugly ass HVAC equipment cutting across the windows that will be covered by signage to somehow make is less distracting.
All these things add up to the idea that the Wilf's are more concerned about their own pocketbook than making DTE and the Commons the best it could be. Now they are allowed to do that capitalism and making a profit aren't illegal in the country. You don't become billionaires by putting anything other than your bottom line first, which again isn't illegal. But you add all those things up on top of the $500 million or so the public spent on building the stadium I wouldn't be surprised that you aren't seeing a lot support for the team on a site that's dominated by people who, I would guess, aren't big football fans in the first place.
If it were really just a couple blocks it’d be fine. Twins Way is a couple blocks. So we can happily allow that. But doesn’t Zygi want Vikings Way to be three blocks? That’s 50% more than a couple. Ridiculous! This will destroy our way of life and plunge the city into chaos.a street re-name for a couple blocks. big whoop.
Look I'm not going to get into a long protracted argument with you litigating every detail of what the team did or didn't do as it relates to DTE. Honestly I just don't care that much, it' s a sports team not world peace. I was simply trying to explain why some people aren't completely in love with everything the team as done. You clearly have your point of view that you are entitled to just like everyone else can, it's simply that we disagree, which is allowed.I don't understand the sentiment.I understand your point of view, largely that the city should be thankful for the Vikings are here and helped make DTE and the Commons possible, and that this is a rather minor request the city can do for the team which is a perfectly fine position to have. In fact part of me agrees with idea that this a relatively minor thing, what's the big deal, just do it.
But the prevailing point of view here is that the Vikings and the Wilf's actually hurt the overall vision for what the development of DTE and the Commons could be instead of helping it, which is also a perfectly fine position to have. Taking a huge number of days of public use from the Commons then only tossing in a million to help build the park that the team will directly benefit most from really doesn't sit well for a lot of people. The MSFA not allowing Ryan to make changes the parking ramp so they can do a better project, yes I know the Vikings and MSFA are separate entities but if you honestly think that the MSFA weren't taking marching orders from the Vikings on that one I have some ocean front property in Arizona you might be interested in. Add in the bridge over the LRT tracks, the half-cool/half-tacky viking ship with a video board screen, the legacy bricks, even the ugly ass HVAC equipment cutting across the windows that will be covered by signage to somehow make is less distracting.
All these things add up to the idea that the Wilf's are more concerned about their own pocketbook than making DTE and the Commons the best it could be. Now they are allowed to do that capitalism and making a profit aren't illegal in the country. You don't become billionaires by putting anything other than your bottom line first, which again isn't illegal. But you add all those things up on top of the $500 million or so the public spent on building the stadium I wouldn't be surprised that you aren't seeing a lot support for the team on a site that's dominated by people who, I would guess, aren't big football fans in the first place.
Actually, these responses make my case - there is a viscous petty dislike for the Wilfs that cause many in this forum to express irrational statements about them for the normal decisions they make in the context of securing and executing the rights similarly situated sports franchise owners make. No problem wth Twins Way yet a hyper reactive petty response to the Vikings looking to do the same. Keep telling yourself the tortured distinctions between the Twins and Vikings is anything other than malice.
I did not say the City of Minneapolis should be thankful to the Vikings (although they did put a billion dollar stadium in a run-down part of the downtown that actually sparked spectacular redevelopment) but rather that its the right thing to do, makes sense, is reasonable, and they had no problem doing it for the other top tier sports franchises (the Twins) when they asked for such naming rights where no-one even thought to challenge it because it goes with the territory when new sports facilities are built.
On the park, when last reported, the private funds raised for the park were $10.5 million with the Vikings contributing more than anyone else - almost a third - $3 million ( http://www.scout.com/nfl/vikings/story/ ... ar-stadium ). This is a park that will come into existence as part of a redevelopment program made possible by - and sparked by - the Wilfs building their stadium in its current location.
This will be a park that fronts an NFL stadium in which negations relating to the parks formation included agreements where the Vikings secured the right to use the park for Viking tailgate purposes - as if that was never an anticipated and foreseeable role for that park from the beginning.
I don’t pretend to speak for the “prevailing view” but are you accusing the Vikings of bribing the a state office or resorting to intimidation tactics against the MSFA? If so, by all means provide the evidence - real evidence. The air rights Ryan secured and agreed to were based on the MSFA ramp as it existed. Given the millions of dollars in traffic analysis surveys and reports associated with building a downtown parking ramp, there is more to such an undertaking than simply pouring more concrete to lay more levels. There is no basis to claim that Ryan’s failure to perform was actually because it could not secure approval to build additional parking as the development partner pulled out in a manner suggesting that plans never progressed beyond the preliminary. Even if you could show that the Vikings did not like the idea of Ryan building new levels, at best that is a tertiary cause for why Ryan cold not perform. This is on Ryan.
The bridge over the LRT tracks is a sound urban planning, people mover/safety decision. Of the $9.5 million to build the bridge, the Vikings are covering $6 million ( http://www.startribune.com/met-council- ... 351929931/ )
The Vikings ship is standard NFL stadium kitsch that tends to be popular with fans and kids. The legacy bricks are popular enough that the Vikings are going to extend the production run. The HVAC positioning was a business decision. There is nothing that the Wilf’s are doing that is outside standard fare for an NFL franchise. The Minnesota Vikings, like all the NFL teams, are for profit ventures. Then again, so are the Twins, Timberwolves, and Wild.
“All these things add up to the idea” that there is a lot of petty irrational dislike mascaraing as something else.