U.S. Bank Stadium

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LakeCharles
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby LakeCharles » March 11th, 2016, 11:24 am

Didier wrote:
David Greene wrote:*I* don't know the difference. Both exist to make money. Both carry out all kinds of branding and advertising strategies. Both can be sources of local pride (or shame). If you think the Vikings ownership considers themselves anything more than businessmen, then man I don't know. It's entertainment, no different from Time Warner or AMC.
Then you're being purposefully glib, and I don't know how to help you.
You could try articulating the difference. What makes the Vikings special enough to get to rename roads? I get that teams and corporations are not the same, but in this case, I don't understand the difference. What do the Vikings bring to the city that Target, or Xcel, or USBank, or whatnot, don't, that is relevant to this discussion? I.e. "A street name should not uniquely identify a particular product, service, tenant, business, or living person."

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Wedgeguy » March 11th, 2016, 11:52 am

Rich wrote:
David Greene wrote:But they effectively own the park for at least a third of the days in a year.
A third of the days is 122. They own the park for 122 days? Where did you get that number?
I quoted 40 as that is what the Wilf's wanted when they were still in the fray for the soccer team which they no longer have access to. They wanted days for soccer too. Why the H*ll the MSFA needs any days is beyond logic to me other than they are trying to make some money with out having to pay a dime for it. I do believe they were wanting 40 days too. I don't think that the park should be used as a hosting spot for Moto-cross races, truck pulls, concerts, trade shows, and other functions in the stadium unless they want to pay the city and the conveyance rent and clean up costs. So if you figure that they are needing a day for build and one for tear down and the 2 days during the weekend, that is 20 weekends out of the year that they have privilege to. (So David was essentially right, but at this rate they will have over 1/3 of the weekends, 20 divided by 52 is 38%). 20 is basically 4 months worth of weekends. This is why the contributions are dripping in like a hospital IV from other corporations, foundations, and other donors. This is not a public park, but a money maker for the stadium. Only when they have renegotiate the contract where they have 20 day tops for the Vikings, and at the most 8 for the MSFA, my opinion is they are looking for corporate welfare at our expense. As it stands now, the park is far from a true public park which the city pays upkeep and programming on. We, the public, get the bread crumbs of the weekends to use it.
Last edited by Wedgeguy on March 11th, 2016, 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Didier
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Didier » March 11th, 2016, 11:57 am

Because a professional sports team is a different kind of business than Ameriprise Financial, and that shouldn't even have to be explained.

I'm not saying it's right, but professional sports teams around the world are private companies that serve a pseudo public purpose, and the Vikings are extremely popular in this state. Hundreds of thousands of people will go to U.S. Bank Stadium annually for the exclusive purpose of being entertained by the Vikings, and like it or not Downtown East will be best known as "Home to the Minnesota Vikings" for the next several decades. So the team wants to ceremonially rename a street to further emphasize that, just like it was before for the Twins.
Star Tribune wrote:During the Metrodome era, the proposed Vikings Way stretch was named Kirby Puckett Place, in honor of the Hall of Famer and former Minnesota Twins outfielder. The dome was shared by the Twins and the Vikings.
You can cover your eyes and pretend there's no difference between the Vikings and Wells Fargo, but the reality is that society views and treats them differently, and refusing this name change won't change that at all.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Wedgeguy » March 11th, 2016, 12:08 pm

^^^ No fan is going to stop coming to MPLS to football games if the name is not changed. So there is no real reason other than vanity for us to let the street be renamed.

Didier
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Didier » March 11th, 2016, 12:25 pm

I don't think anyone is under the impression that this is about anything other than vanity and branding.

I'm just saying that this type of thing is hardly unprecedented, including in our city and on this same stretch of road, and so it's silly for people to be getting up in arms about it.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby FISHMANPET » March 11th, 2016, 12:29 pm

Not sure that "people have done dumb things in the past" creates a "precedent" that means we can't point out that it's dumb.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Didier » March 11th, 2016, 12:51 pm

+ 1.

LakeCharles
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby LakeCharles » March 11th, 2016, 12:53 pm

As I always say "If you don't object the first time something is done, you lose your right to ever object again."

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Drizzay » March 11th, 2016, 1:08 pm

I'm fine with them renaming this section of road. My life won't be affected by the change.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby QuietBlue » March 11th, 2016, 1:17 pm

Didier wrote:I don't think anyone is under the impression that this is about anything other than vanity and branding.

I'm just saying that this type of thing is hardly unprecedented, including in our city and on this same stretch of road, and so it's silly for people to be getting up in arms about it.
I'm a bit surprised that people are bringing up the "what if company X asked to rename a street?" argument, because that already happens regularly. I can think of several examples off the top of my head in the Twin Cities where this has happened. That's not saying it's right or wrong -- I really have no opinion on this issue -- but it's hardly a new situation.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby FISHMANPET » March 11th, 2016, 1:26 pm

The two that come to mind in Minneapolis, Twins Way and Wells Fargo Way (why are these all Ways?) are basically self contained streets that are not vital parts of the grid. This is a major North South route through the city, and they want to rename a tiny section of it, which has implications far beyond just this little stretch. If there was some little street that went from nowhere to nowhere around the stadium and they wanted to rename that, I think that'd be basically fine, but that's not the case here.

And at the very least, do they have any PR people? The way they framed the request, even if in just the media, being about not wanting to have a name of a rival, is just so oblivious. I mean, are the Wilfs just trying to to get armed mobs to run them out of town? They're not wining any points.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby Didier » March 11th, 2016, 1:46 pm

This same stretch of road was called Kirby Puckett Place until the Twins moved out FYI.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby FISHMANPET » March 11th, 2016, 1:52 pm

It was co-named Kirby Puckett Place and Chicago Ave, it never lost the Chicago Ave name. I'd be fine if they wanted to replace Kirby Puckett Place with Vikings Way and leave Chicago Ave, but that's not what they're asking for. They're asking to remove the street name from a very prominent North South street.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby MobJob » March 11th, 2016, 2:41 pm

Didier wrote:Because a professional sports team is a different kind of business than Ameriprise Financial, and that shouldn't even have to be explained.

I'm not saying it's right, but professional sports teams around the world are private companies that serve a pseudo public purpose, and the Vikings are extremely popular in this state. Hundreds of thousands of people will go to U.S. Bank Stadium annually for the exclusive purpose of being entertained by the Vikings, and like it or not Downtown East will be best known as "Home to the Minnesota Vikings" for the next several decades. So the team wants to ceremonially rename a street to further emphasize that, just like it was before for the Twins.
Star Tribune wrote:During the Metrodome era, the proposed Vikings Way stretch was named Kirby Puckett Place, in honor of the Hall of Famer and former Minnesota Twins outfielder. The dome was shared by the Twins and the Vikings.
You can cover your eyes and pretend there's no difference between the Vikings and Wells Fargo, but the reality is that society views and treats them differently, and refusing this name change won't change that at all.
Except there actually is very little difference. The Minnesota Vikings are an LLC, just like many other businesses. The only real difference is the product being sold. The Vikings Sell entertainment; Wells Fargo sells financial services. Both serve a "public purpose' only in the sense that they provide a product that a segment of the public wants for a price.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby amiller92 » March 11th, 2016, 2:48 pm

Today they were tearing up 5th Street and the parking lot that had been on the southeast side of it's intersection with Park. I was surprised about the parking lot.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby VikingFaninMaryland » March 11th, 2016, 5:23 pm

BigIdeasGuy wrote: Look I'm not going to get into a long protracted argument with you litigating every detail of what the team did or didn't do as it relates to DTE. Honestly I just don't care that much, it' s a sports team not world peace. I was simply trying to explain why some people aren't completely in love with everything the team as done. You clearly have your point of view that you are entitled to just like everyone else can, it's simply that we disagree, which is allowed.

If you go back and read my post you will note that I never said the Vikings did anything illegal or wrong I simply laid out multiple cases where the team put it's on bottomline ahead of the needs of DTE. There is nothing illegal about that but when you allow that perception to exist the team shouldn't be surprised how people will eventually react.

And to be clear I wasn't accusing the Vikings of bribing or intimidating the MSFA over the parking ramp. Simply because the MSFA held the team's position doesn't mean they were bribed or intimidated.
Mullen,

I think you have to read the Viking’s statement for what it is intended to be, street theater in the interest of a little fun and humor focusing on the home team. The City Counsel is going to enact the renaming and they know that too. Lighten up. I wouldn’t be surprised if the actual renaming came when they have a home game with the Bears to that the Bears can play up the drama - all in fun.

OBTW - if you watch national media about the Vikings, they are clearly a rising star not just on the field but in management and ownership. Who is the face of that team? Zimmer! Have you noticed how many players in free agency make it clear how much they want to come to Minnesota to play under him? As it stands now, the Wilfs appear to figured how to put the pieces together.

BigIdeasGuy,

Of course your “not going to get into a protracted argument,” you can’t win on the facts. My point is that there is very little beside irrational venomous dislike driving the dislike of the Wilfs and it oozes from this forum and its unseemly.

Just so you know, as someone who actually is a member of the bar in good standing, when you accuse a private entity of imposing undue influence in the decision making of a governing entity in the execution of its lawful authority, you are making accusations of corruption - not the least because you told me that if I think otherwise that there is land in Arizona you’d like to sell me. Incidentally, the Wilfs asking the MSFA to hold Ryan to the terms of the development agreement does not constitute undue pressure.

You dramatically understated the Wilfs investment in the new park, failed to note that the Vikings are paying 70% of the air bridge which was a people mover/public safety concern, that Wilfs are covering the entire cost of the green space between U.S. Bank Stadium and the park, or that one reason the Vikings won rights to use the new park is that they gave up ownership of a portion of it in the deal and bargained for retained usage rights. Also, as the calendar of events turn to the getting the park done, don’t be surprised if the Vikings contribute even more money as part of some negotiation strategy in which they get something in exchange.

Yes, the Wilfs are in the business of making money, but their business strategy with regard to the new stadium is to ensure a maximum return on investment by not sparing any expense in making the U.S. Bank Stadium an elite word class stadium and they have put up tens and hundreds of millions to ensure the this happens - above and beyond what their initial commitment was - after the initial commitment was made.

As regards the Vikings, the Wilfs, to date have a record of driving hard bargains but also have one of fully performing on their end and, and with the Stadium, substantially outperforming. In their negotiations, however, sight should not be lost that they are simply bargaining for what is in line with what other NFL teams negotiate - be it street naming, naming rights, control of branding. They did not get these in negotiations because they were bullies, they got them because that’s what sports franchises get as part of the package. When the street is renamed Viking Way, it will be a public event where crowds will be clapping, Bud Grant et al will speak of the Viking’s legacy, and most will be wondering WTF your real problem is with such an obvious no-brainer as the new street designation.

OBTW - the Vikings wouldn’t be doing it as a marketing campaign or out of vanity, it would be because that is the actual theme of the area.

It is in this light that the carping against the Wilfs for profoundly petty reasons over a sustained period takes on noticeable pathological form.

Yes, I am calling into question “how people will begin to react” - but not among the masses but rather just in this forum.

So an NFL sports franchise is going to surround their stadium marquee with a team image - here a Viking ship, and use their own money to do so. I’m shocked! (Not really,!) The Viking sail marquee is rather clever as these things go, there will be a lot of national and international media space allocated to covering it, and it will win awards for creative originality. You and what horde are going to rise up in righteous indignation when they christen it?

On all the heightened concern, hyper distinguishing of the naming of the road , and all the faux deep thinking policy ramifications (“could you try to articulate the difference … blah, blah, blah), you really run the risk of coming across as self-important dolts. Yet, this is simply the cost of riding a venomous irrational dislike of a person to the point where one has to take heightened exception to everything they do to the point of arguing the ridiculous and coming across that way as a consequence.
Last edited by VikingFaninMaryland on March 11th, 2016, 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

VikingFaninMaryland
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby VikingFaninMaryland » March 11th, 2016, 5:27 pm

MNdible wrote:Twincitizen nails it.

I wish VikingsFan would just come out and accuse us all of being anti-semitic instead of dancing around it so clumsily.
I had no intention of coming out and accusing anyone of anything. Having said that, however, to your point, yes, it screams anti-Semitism. As you brought it up completely unsolicited, is it because you are beginning to sense the obviousness of it?

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby MNdible » March 11th, 2016, 5:35 pm

I don't know, was Red McCombs Jewish? Because people treated him like a tone-deaf self-important huckster too.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby VikingFaninMaryland » March 11th, 2016, 5:53 pm

MNdible wrote:I don't know, was Red McCombs Jewish? Because people treated him like a tone-deaf self-important huckster too.
But that's the point. I was just in San Antonio, Texas two days ago (and in Arlington, Texas a mile from the Cowboy's AT&T Stadium - a U.S. Bank Stadium sister stadium yesterday and earlier today). Folks joked of how they still have Vikings jerseys form when McCombs was trying to move the team down there and folks down there thought it was a done deal. The franchise was run down when he sold it. The Wilfs have put tons of money into it.

They have also put hundreds of millions into the franchise (outside the team roster) and are fixing to spend hundreds of millions more. It took a while for the owners to figure it out, but they are elevating the status of the team in the NFL. When they bought the team, the Vikings were in an inferior stadium, in a substandard training facility, where the training facility was also run down. It caused overcrowded meetings and was a night mare in terms of attracting prospective rookies and free agents.

There's a big difference between Red McCombs and the Wilfs in terms of what they actually committed to spend and then spent - while keeping the team in Minnesota.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium Construction Updates

Postby MNdible » March 11th, 2016, 6:08 pm

Huh. Is it possible that being a billionaire sports team owner isn't the way to become a beloved public figure? That somehow, people just don't identify with them and appreciate everything that they're doing for the little people? As improbable as that sounds, it just might be true, and perhaps said billionaires shouldn't purchase a sports team if they're going to be thin-skinned about it. Even if they have the foresight to hire a PR wizard like Lester Bagley.


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