U.S. Bank Stadium

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VikingFaninMaryland
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby VikingFaninMaryland » September 20th, 2016, 2:30 pm

David Greene wrote:I am not happy we built a pedestrian bridge for 10 freaking million dollars. It's completely ridiculous.

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The Vikings are paying for most of the bridge and secured the naming and advertising rights to pay it down. As the bridge is publicly owned, and is used to secure actual pedestrian access to other public spaces where, as can now be plainly seen when events occur, there is an actual public purpose.

VikingFaninMaryland
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby VikingFaninMaryland » September 20th, 2016, 2:45 pm

Chip Whitley wrote:How long will the funding of the stadium be discussed? Everyone loved to talk about the funding of Target Field before US Bank but now no one talks about it. Last I heard, Target Field was going to be paid off years early and under budget due to reduced interest. It was worthy of discussion before it was passed but it just seems like it won't die. It was passed May 2012 and 2017 is only a few months away. I'm not a huge fan of how it was funded but there have been some obvious benefits to the city and nothing will change now. It's just getting annoying how every time the Vikings are discussed or the stadium, there are bunch of comments about it. But I digress.

I was at the game and have now attended the first 3 games and have had a chance to to see the game from most parts of the stadium including the nosebleeds, the lower bowl, and from a suite. It's a cliche but it really is a "world class" football stadium in my opinion, which should be expected I suppose. I'm not going to say the stadium is perfect but it's a solid 9 out of 10. The exterior of the stadium is probably a 7 or an 8. As others have said, I'd like to see a more permanent entry for events. Although the nice part is that when events aren't happening, the plaza is totally open. The ped bridge and Commons were good ideas and I'm happy they happened.

I'm sure just like with Target Field, some minor changes/ upgrades will be made here and there. As I mentioned above, in several years when people do (mostly) forget about the funding, I see it as an asset to the city and state.

I would like to take a small wager for anyone interested. (No money, goods or services). Club Purple is now Mystic Lake Club Purple. A gaming casino now has a non-gambling presence in the stadium where fans are allowed to do fantasy football - an activity some states are seeking to declare an form of gambling. Before Minneapolis has to begin paying down the debt in 2019, who wants to bet that there will be a substantive effort to allow Mystic Lake to engage in some form of gambling during periods when no sporting activity is involved in the stadium that would involve some form of revenue sharing with the city (or maybe even the states)? Recall, the State is already using pull-tabs, a form of gambling to help pay down the debt. Who here does not see that coming (not that it will necessarily succeed, but that there will be a real effort).

On the opportunity cost argument made earlier by someone else, when making that evaluation, are you adding in the tens of millions of $$$ in fixed new tax revenues from DT East that will be generated from the complete transformation of what was a blighted (tax neutral to tax negative) area owing to the new stadium that is already assured?

David Greene
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby David Greene » September 20th, 2016, 3:51 pm

VikingFaninMaryland wrote: those that who need to moralize on issues that are simply business decisions.
Wait just a minute there. Business decisions *are* moral decisions. The fact that many people silo those two things is the cause of a great many problems in our society.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby David Greene » September 20th, 2016, 3:52 pm

VikingFaninMaryland wrote:
David Greene wrote:I am not happy we built a pedestrian bridge for 10 freaking million dollars. It's completely ridiculous.
The Vikings are paying for most of the bridge and secured the naming and advertising rights to pay it down. As the bridge is publicly owned, and is used to secure actual pedestrian access to other public spaces where, as can now be plainly seen when events occur, there is an actual public purpose.
10.
Freaking.
Million.
Dollars.

For a bridge.

That doesn't have to carry vehicles.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby David Greene » September 20th, 2016, 3:55 pm

VikingFaninMaryland wrote:I would like to take a small wager for anyone interested. (No money, goods or services). Club Purple is now Mystic Lake Club Purple. A gaming casino now has a non-gambling presence in the stadium where fans are allowed to do fantasy football - an activity some states are seeking to declare an form of gambling. Before Minneapolis has to begin paying down the debt in 2019, who wants to bet that there will be a substantive effort to allow Mystic Lake to engage in some form of gambling during periods when no sporting activity is involved in the stadium that would involve some form of revenue sharing with the city (or maybe even the states)?
An effort? Sure, that's a fairly safe bet. "Substantive" is subjective.

Will it happen in three years? No way. Even if the Shakopee Mdewakanton wanted to do it, there would be gigantic pushback from the other tribes.

MNdible
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby MNdible » September 20th, 2016, 4:40 pm

VikingFaninMaryland wrote:The point is, as you note, its there money whether realized or a future interest.
So, the money earned from selling the naming rights that were explicitly given over to the Wilfs by the State and City is the Wilfs' money, whereas the half of the stadium which was actually paid for by the State and the City is not the Wilfs' money.

You'll excuse me if I don't bite on this line of reasoning, right?

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Tiller
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Re: U.S. Bank STadium

Postby Tiller » September 20th, 2016, 5:31 pm

I personally agree that there was enough conversation to justify giving this its own subforum. ;)

Also MNdible is correct in pointing out that^ inconsistent reasoning. If the money given up by the city to pay for the stadium is the city's money, then the naming rights given up by the city, which have monetary value, are also the city's money. There's only an extra step involved.

VikingFaninMaryland
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby VikingFaninMaryland » September 20th, 2016, 9:59 pm

MNdible wrote:
VikingFaninMaryland wrote:The point is, as you note, its there money whether realized or a future interest.
So, the money earned from selling the naming rights that were explicitly given over to the Wilfs by the State and City is the Wilfs' money, whereas the half of the stadium which was actually paid for by the State and the City is not the Wilfs' money.

You'll excuse me if I don't bite on this line of reasoning, right?
Actually, this is not a "line of reasoning," its a well grounded and well established business model that is standard practice in the professional sports world. There is nothing controversial or exceptional about what the Vikings secured in the context of those rights in the context of public/private investment. Excel, Target Field, Target Center? The selective nature of this moral dilemma is not lost on me (and I suspect others).

From a separate response, the moralizing comes precisely from the fact that you don't understand the business model for professional sports - that reflects an amoral (neither moral nor immoral) business decision. In fact, the MSFA legislative documents explicitly recognize the property right basis of naming rights. The state did not "give" the Vikings that intellectual property right, they recognized it; and that it constitutes a basis of the bargain (a legal term) that fully reflects the reality that the value of a naming right does not come from the fact that Minnesota (or Minneapolis, or New York City) brings value to the naming association but rather that the value comes from the NFL brand affiliation The way the "moralizers" construct their ideation of what is actually a standard business practices creates a false sense of the business model that is structured to facilitate invidious attacks on motivation and character.

Its like being outraged when finding out that people breath air. (This is not a Soylent Green is people type of arrangement)

VikingFaninMaryland
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby VikingFaninMaryland » September 20th, 2016, 10:11 pm

David Greene wrote:
VikingFaninMaryland wrote:I would like to take a small wager for anyone interested. (No money, goods or services). Club Purple is now Mystic Lake Club Purple. A gaming casino now has a non-gambling presence in the stadium where fans are allowed to do fantasy football - an activity some states are seeking to declare an form of gambling. Before Minneapolis has to begin paying down the debt in 2019, who wants to bet that there will be a substantive effort to allow Mystic Lake to engage in some form of gambling during periods when no sporting activity is involved in the stadium that would involve some form of revenue sharing with the city (or maybe even the states)?
An effort? Sure, that's a fairly safe bet. "Substantive" is subjective.

Will it happen in three years? No way. Even if the Shakopee Mdewakanton wanted to do it, there would be gigantic pushback from the other tribes.
In the legal sense of the term, "substantive" means serious and weighted.Hence a real effort.

grant1simons2
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Re: U.S. Bank STadium

Postby grant1simons2 » September 20th, 2016, 10:27 pm

I'm so happy that this is finally its own subforum

amiller92
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby amiller92 » September 21st, 2016, 9:11 am

David Greene wrote: 10.
Freaking.
Million.
Dollars.

For a bridge.

That doesn't have to carry vehicles.
Have you seen it? Because that number sounds slightly less crazy when you do. It's huge.

Which doesn't make it the best solution to the problem, of course.

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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby amiller92 » September 21st, 2016, 9:15 am

MNdible wrote:So, the money earned from selling the naming rights that were explicitly given over to the Wilfs by the State and City is the Wilfs' money
Of course. In what sense is it not? It's as much the Wilf's money as the earning from beer sales in the stadium or, for that matter, ticket sales.

Had the state not given the naming rights to the team, then of course it would not be the Wilf's money.

amiller92
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby amiller92 » September 21st, 2016, 9:22 am

VikingFaninMaryland wrote:In the legal sense of the term, "substantive" means serious and weighted.
As this is two posts in a row in which you've purported to use legal terms: no it does not. In the legal sense of the term, "substantive" means relating to the substance of the law (i.e., rights, responsibilities and privileges) in contrast to the rules of procedure.

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Re: U.S. Bank STadium

Postby MNdible » September 21st, 2016, 9:25 am

Look, the legislation is the legislation, the deal is the deal, and on the whole I'm glad that we got something figured out, and we got a stadium that's going to serve us well for a long time. I'd let the sleeping dog lie if we didn't keep getting slapped in the face by grandstanders telling us how happy we should be that the Wilfs contributed so much to the project. Because they really didn't. They smartly leveraged the value of the asset they owned, and they negotiated hard and got a good deal for themselves. Good for them.

VikingFaninMaryland
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby VikingFaninMaryland » September 23rd, 2016, 8:53 pm

amiller92 wrote:
VikingFaninMaryland wrote:In the legal sense of the term, "substantive" means serious and weighted.
As this is two posts in a row in which you've purported to use legal terms: no it does not. In the legal sense of the term, "substantive" means relating to the substance of the law (i.e., rights, responsibilities and privileges) in contrast to the rules of procedure.
You are drawing out the distinction between substantive due process and procedural due process. Even this term draws out the distinction between the substance of the issue and question (for example, the crime itself) and processes that lead to prosecution (fair trial on the crime).

From Black's Law Dictionary: "Substantive. An essential part or constituent or relating to what is essential."

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Re: U.S. Bank STadium

Postby LakeCharles » October 5th, 2016, 5:36 am

US Bank Stadium will not allow marathon runners to enter in order to stay warm and use the restroom, ending a long tradition:

http://www.startribune.com/twin-cities- ... 395837151/

I wonder if they will move the starting location of the race now, or if all parties will be able to make it work in future years?

amiller92
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Re: U.S. Bank STadium

Postby amiller92 » October 5th, 2016, 9:14 am

Kinda seems like it's just a scheduling snafu, no?

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Re: U.S. Bank STadium

Postby LakeCharles » October 5th, 2016, 9:27 am

Kinda, but they have previously held the marathon on the same day as a home Vikings game and been able to use the Dome. But it sounds like next year they will hopefully be able to work it out.

KML_1981
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Re: U.S. Bank STadium

Postby KML_1981 » October 5th, 2016, 9:35 am

It has a pretty obvious answer..

Ryder Cup last week already had the NFL move a game to Monday Night Football. The Marathon was also delayed a week to make room for the Ryder Cup final rounds. So, the Marathon isn't being ran on its normal weekend. NFL couldn't make the schedule work without the Vikes playing on Sunday this week.

All sides are saying it will be back to normal after this year!!

Blame the Ryder Cup if you're going to blame anybody. Not the Vikings or Stadium Authority's fault. They don't set their schedule, the NFL does and couldn't make two exceptions back-to-back.

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Re: U.S. Bank STadium

Postby mattaudio » October 5th, 2016, 9:36 am

Still, fun to blame the stadium.


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