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Re: Peavey Plaza Reconstruction Project

Posted: August 2nd, 2013, 10:55 am
by Gregory
Avian wrote:
Gregory wrote:This is just awful news. So now that pile of concrete crap remains the same. The updates would have been beautiful and made the space a place to go. I would bet all the money I've ever had that the people who were so upset about the proposed renovations have never spent a second there.
To me, the "updates" were disastrous. And I've spent plenty of time in Peavey Plaza.

So I've won your bet. I'll take a check, thanks! :)
Can you wait until next Friday?

Re: Peavey Plaza Reconstruction Project

Posted: August 2nd, 2013, 11:27 am
by mullen
i'm just reading the direct quotes from the mayor in that strib story. they've been in discussions but they have been fruitless as to how to proceed.

Re: Peavey Plaza Reconstruction Project

Posted: August 2nd, 2013, 11:43 am
by Nathan
Gregory wrote:This is just awful news. So now that pile of concrete crap remains the same. The updates would have been beautiful and made the space a place to go. I would bet all the money I've ever had that the people who were so upset about the proposed renovations have never spent a second there.
Then you bet terribly wrong. I still go there regularly. AND I really enjoy the space, geometries, and material usage. Brutalism is breathtaking to me, and many other people. Your definition of a pile of concrete crap was actually designed by a great landscape architect from a significant movement in modern architecture. Whether you like it or not, it's important to maintain and display the history of architecture and design in our city. It might not seem like a big deal to you now, but in another 40 years it will be 100 years old and people will look back on it the way we look back on buildings and structures from the 1920's.

They will figure something out. Just like they will figure something out with the Armory, just like they always do.

Re: Peavey Plaza Reconstruction Project

Posted: August 2nd, 2013, 12:43 pm
by MplsSteve
Well I certainly wouldn't call Peavey a "pile of concrete crap", however I do believe that Friedberg's design for Loring Greenway was a lot better. I seem to recall a study that found people naturally tend to avoid public spaces that are either elevated above or sunk below street level. My big question is whether the current design could ever be made ADA compliant.

Re: Peavey Plaza Reconstruction Project

Posted: August 2nd, 2013, 12:45 pm
by MNdible
With enough ramps, you can make anything ADA compliant. You'd probably completely ruin it in the process, but it would be compliant.

Re: Peavey Plaza Reconstruction Project

Posted: August 2nd, 2013, 12:48 pm
by David Greene
I'm not a fan of brutalism but I do love Peavey. It will be great to see those fountains working again. And yes, I visit it often enough. I'm *so* glad we're preserving and updating it.

Re: Peavey Plaza Reconstruction Project

Posted: August 2nd, 2013, 1:19 pm
by Nathan
MplsSteve wrote:Well I certainly wouldn't call Peavey a "pile of concrete crap", however I do believe that Friedberg's design for Loring Greenway was a lot better. I seem to recall a study that found people naturally tend to avoid public spaces that are either elevated above or sunk below street level. My big question is whether the current design could ever be made ADA compliant.
The proposed updated plaza would still be sunken because of windows in Orchestra Hall's building. That's the reason everything was planned sunken in the first place. I like areas like that because you kind of have to Discover them. And when peavey was completely functioning and green and the sound of the water totally washed out the sound of the traffic etc etc

Re: Peavey Plaza Reconstruction Project

Posted: August 2nd, 2013, 2:56 pm
by John
MNdible wrote:With enough ramps, you can make anything ADA compliant. You'd probably completely ruin it in the process, but it would be compliant.
No, I don't think it will ruin it. But it does mean the required alterations will have some impact on the original design. This is why BOTH sides of the issue need to avoid being too dogmatic in their viewpoints and find a middle way.

Re: Peavey Plaza Reconstruction Project

Posted: August 2nd, 2013, 2:56 pm
by MplsSteve
I like areas like that because you kind of have to Discover them.
I think you've hit on the reason for the divided opinions on Peavey. You have to be slightly more adventurous than the average person to really appreciate it.

Re: Peavey Plaza Reconstruction Project

Posted: August 2nd, 2013, 5:08 pm
by seanrichardryan
I thought the ramp was to be incorporated along the property line owned by Orchestra. And then the 'stepping stone' fountain walk would be filled in, probably with a differing material to show the original portion. Compliance will not be an issue.

Re: Peavey Plaza Reconstruction Project

Posted: August 2nd, 2013, 6:31 pm
by John
seanrichardryan wrote:I thought the ramp was to be incorporated along the property line owned by Orchestra. And then the 'stepping stone' fountain walk would be filled in, probably with a differing material to show the original portion. Compliance will not be an issue.
Exactly.

Re: Peavey Plaza Reconstruction Project

Posted: August 8th, 2013, 11:09 am
by Nathan
Update from the Cultural Landscape Foundation. Sounds like the hearing is to be August 23rd, but they are aiming to reach an agreement before then.

http://tclf.org/landslides/peavey-plaza ... edcampaign

Re: Peavey Plaza Reconstruction Project

Posted: August 8th, 2013, 11:46 am
by mullen
just do the Friedberg pro bono renovation and be done with it. the hall renovation is looking really nice, it deserves an updated peavey plaza.

Re: Peavey Plaza Reconstruction Project

Posted: August 8th, 2013, 11:55 am
by trkaiser
That's what I think. Somebody mentioned earlier that was out of the question. If so, why?

Re: Peavey Plaza Reconstruction Project

Posted: August 8th, 2013, 12:01 pm
by Nathan
trkaiser wrote:That's what I think. Somebody mentioned earlier that was out of the question. If so, why?
I think they are thinking it's out of the question because...

A: It was presented to the City too late to be considered, but I don't know why the City couldn't re-start the process?

B: Now that it's historic some of the changes in his plan may not even be allowed, and any variances to the historic character are going to involve getting through a lot of red tape.

Re: Peavey Plaza Reconstruction Project

Posted: August 8th, 2013, 12:36 pm
by mullen
ok well tweak it then. this is a drama that needs to end.

and a better winter use needs to be considered than turning the pond into an ice skating rink. these renderings always show happy people skating across a frozen plaza. i work by the plaza and rarely see anyone skating. there has to be something considered that could bring more activity. perhaps a winter market of sorts. or christmas market in december..they do that in central park, nyc.

Re: Peavey Plaza Reconstruction Project

Posted: August 8th, 2013, 12:42 pm
by Nathan
Definitely, I think the drama has been going on too long, but the (slight) spotlight might have been enough to get something re-worked.

Re: Peavey Plaza Reconstruction Project

Posted: August 8th, 2013, 1:18 pm
by John
mullen wrote:just do the Friedberg pro bono renovation and be done with it. the hall renovation is looking really nice, it deserves an updated peavey plaza.
The new Orchestra Hall and the "City Room" in particular echo the sculptural forms of the original fountains, and create a great visual connection between the two projects on the block. Will look much better than the Oslund proposal.

Re: Peavey Plaza Reconstruction Project

Posted: August 8th, 2013, 1:57 pm
by mullen
i was thinking the same thing. the forms mesh really well. orchestra hall has also added outdoor terraces on the ground and elevated levels overlooking the plaza.

Re: Peavey Plaza Reconstruction Project

Posted: August 12th, 2013, 8:54 am
by mullen
rybak has basically washed his hands of this project now. he is quoted as saying he's tried to negotiate a resolution but has moved on to other development projects he can resolve before he leaves office. this is sad because peavey plaza is such a pivotal piece of south nicollet mall. it's really a gem of a block, along with the hall itself.

the city was at fault for pushing a total reconstruction through without weighing the original design's value and importance.