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Re: Peavey Plaza reconstruction project

Posted: September 17th, 2012, 8:40 am
by John
mullen wrote:this is the dumbest waste of time and i'm tired of reading about it.

go talk to orchestra hall employees how well that plaza works. it's great for homeless people having sex or urinating on their building. but those glorious fountains and stepped concrete! ah the 70's....
I live across the street from the plaza and I agree it's terrible in many ways. It is in desperate need of an overhaul to update it for a variey of reasons both practical and aesthetic. The only problem I have is the fountains. They are the essence of what made this such a great outdoor urban space. I guess I find it confusing as to why the architect didn't retain or rebuild them in some fashion as part of the renovation. That seems like such a blatantly obvious "given".They completely eliminate the best and most beloved feature of the space, and what really makes it so unique. There's something about that which doesn't jive.

Re: Peavey Plaza reconstruction project

Posted: September 17th, 2012, 10:11 am
by Nathan
mullen wrote:this is the dumbest waste of time and i'm tired of reading about it.

go talk to orchestra hall employees how well that plaza works. it's great for homeless people having sex or urinating on their building. but those glorious fountains and stepped concrete! ah the 70's....
THIS is NOT the dumbest waste of time. People like you fighting against it are the dumbest waste of time. We have a park designed by a FAMOUS landscape architect YES from the 70's that is going to be gone forever. Your kids, my kids, NO ONE'S kids will ever be able to see this. Sometime in the next 20-50 years the 1970's will be as old as 1920 is to us now. Whether or not we totally appreciate it, other people deserve to be able to see the timeline and progression of architecture and design in our city. Especially because we're Minneapolis. Do I need to remind all of you of what lessons you DIDN'T learn from the great Urban Renewal that the 50's and 60's? Have any of you done your research on Gateway park and why that was destroyed? It was destroyed because people thought it was a seedy place, there were homeless people and drunks and beggars there. And the city's cost effective solution was to tear it down with half of the other historic buildings. Buildings and parks that people thought were passe in the 50's. Oh 1890's, 1910's pshhhh, no big deal. What were people thinking then? And you know what I bet most of us now would love if Minneapolis still had the beautiful Gateway park, if not just for the roads staying true, and having that historic landmark.

Also, the Orchestra Hall only owns 25% of the park, which they are building on. It's really just city council members wanting to be able to say the built a new park on their time in office. Yay Them!

What wonderful progress they made destroying gateway it because of bums and wanting to save money...

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Wow! look how great it looks now!


Re: Peavey Plaza reconstruction project

Posted: September 17th, 2012, 4:30 pm
by Lancestar2
you said it beautifully fotoapparatic! I don't think I could have done it better myself

*gives virtual round of applause* :D

Re: Peavey Plaza reconstruction project

Posted: September 17th, 2012, 8:00 pm
by seanrichardryan
The map is centered on the ritz hotel block. Much of the two blocks of Gateway Park are still greenspace. Perhaps if they built a neoclassical Peavy Plaza it would drive the homeless to the Modernist Gateway.

Re: Peavey Plaza reconstruction project

Posted: September 17th, 2012, 10:09 pm
by mplsjaromir
There is much less poverty nowadays

http://www.brookings.edu/about/projects ... fall-meyer

Re: Peavey Plaza reconstruction project

Posted: September 18th, 2012, 8:01 am
by spearson
seanrichardryan wrote:The map is centered on the ritz hotel block. Much of the two blocks of Gateway Park are still greenspace. Perhaps if they built a neoclassical Peavy Plaza it would drive the homeless to the Modernist Gateway.
Just to go off topic for a second:

Even though I think it's technically ING's property now, I wouldn't mind seeing that greenspace area that was Gateway park updated. It's just not very welcoming to me.

Re: Peavey Plaza reconstruction project

Posted: September 18th, 2012, 11:46 am
by Nathan
The map is off a bit, I realized after, but it still goes to show that people thought that destroying the buildings around the Gateway park, and gateway park was the best way to revitalize the area. And it clearly wasn't, and now we are SORELY missing large chunks of our city's history.

Modernist parks are NOT bad, they are maybe different than what you like, but a lot of people do like them. And they will be a rarity as they are destroyed across the country. 30 years from now people would be bragging that they still have a modernist park... but I guess Portland will be the one's bragging because they've refurbished their version, and it is a wonderful people filled space. It's all about the water. Peavey Plaza hasn't had all of it's water features for over a decade. Which is the city's fault.

Let Portland have another thing better than us because we're too lazy and cheap to keep it up.
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Re: Peavey Plaza reconstruction project

Posted: September 18th, 2012, 12:27 pm
by mattaudio
Kind of shocked there's a park somewhere with that high of open ledges...

Re: Peavey Plaza reconstruction project

Posted: September 18th, 2012, 1:04 pm
by Nathan
Peavey's tallest might be like 20' or more, it just doesn't seem like it because they step in so much.

Here's a pretty good article with some great pictures of when they fountains were running.

http://landscapeurbanism.com/rescuing-peavey-plaza/

Re: Peavey Plaza reconstruction project

Posted: September 18th, 2012, 1:46 pm
by aguaman
porland's ira keller fountain sure is nice.
but i have seen homeless people using it as a toilet too.

Re: Peavey Plaza reconstruction project

Posted: September 18th, 2012, 1:59 pm
by Nathan
Can I ask why we judge public spaces as to whether or not they get used by homeless people as a toilet? THEY ARE HOMELESS. The city IS their toilet. The fact that they gather at Peavey is because the city let it decline until it wasn't a functional/appealing space for everyday people. So the general public just accepts it, and let's it snowball. Whether a homeless person pees in a park is not a judgement of the park's worth.

Re: Peavey Plaza reconstruction project

Posted: September 18th, 2012, 2:29 pm
by mattaudio
I don't know. We need to be pragmatic here. When 90% of the general public even hears about people peeing or doing whatever in a park, they will not go there. In a sense its not a judgment of the park's worth, but it's reality and we need to work within that framework.

Re: Peavey Plaza reconstruction project

Posted: September 18th, 2012, 6:36 pm
by MSPtoMKE
And if it is reconstructed into a shiny new park, homeless people won't even think of using it as a toilet!

Re: Peavey Plaza reconstruction project

Posted: September 18th, 2012, 6:41 pm
by mattaudio
In most cities in Europe, I seem to recall these free public toilets on the sidewalk. It would spray down the inside between every use. Seems like that would be a better facility for relief than a fountain.

Re: Peavey Plaza reconstruction project

Posted: September 18th, 2012, 7:00 pm
by John
I doubt that Peavey Plaza will have nearly as many problems when it is renovated ( in whatever scheme occurs). The fact of Orchestra Hall closing this summer, and the plaza's imminent demolition are both factors that contributed to this summer's homeless camp there. Once Orchestra Hall and the plaza are renovated it will return to become one of our most desirable and heavily used urban spaces downtown.

Re: Peavey Plaza reconstruction project

Posted: September 18th, 2012, 7:04 pm
by Nathan
mattaudio wrote:In most cities in Europe, I seem to recall these free public toilets on the sidewalk. It would spray down the inside between every use. Seems like that would be a better facility for relief than a fountain.
I think you still have to pay for these, in most cases... like a Euro or something.

Re: Peavey Plaza reconstruction project

Posted: September 19th, 2012, 6:51 am
by mattaudio
I have no idea what this says, but these look familiar...
http://www.paris.fr/pratique/Portal.lut ... t_id=21141

Re: Peavey Plaza reconstruction project

Posted: September 19th, 2012, 7:14 am
by mplsjaromir
mattaudio wrote:I have no idea what this says, but these look familiar...
http://www.paris.fr/pratique/Portal.lut ... t_id=21141
The public toilets
Nearly 400 public toilets are installed in Paris. Since 15 February 2006, access to all public toilets is free.

New toilets, designed by designer Patrick JOUIN are being installed since March 2009 and are gradually replacing the park instead. Currently 368 were renewed. All public toilets will be accessible to the disabled.

Re: Peavey Plaza reconstruction project

Posted: September 19th, 2012, 7:24 am
by PhilmerPhil
fotoapparatic wrote:for those of you who love brutalist and modernist architecture, and landscapes... Join the Preservation Alliance of Minnesota and many others by bringing your lunch to Peavey Plaza, and eating it too.

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Reminder. I'll be there.

Re: Peavey Plaza reconstruction project

Posted: September 19th, 2012, 11:14 am
by PhilmerPhil
Lol. Wow. NO ONE is here. There are about 5 people.