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Re: Wells Fargo Redevelopment - 801 Portland - 16 stories - 180'

Posted: March 22nd, 2019, 12:48 pm
by alexschief
This could double as my response to the discussion on the Elliot Park thread on the First Covenant project, but swapping retail for housing at the ground level is a good trade. Minneapolis absolutely need tons of housing, but pedestrian scale retail is one of those things that helps make dense neighborhoods possible at the fundamental level, and it really only can exist on one floor of the building. This area of downtown doesn't have many shopping options (the only quadrant of the freeway loop without a grocery store, and CVS is now closing), and so I'm happy to see these changes.

Retail can be tough to fill, and getting more small retail spaces requires a developer who can take a short term risk for a long term gain. The fact that KA is putting down roots in this neighborhood makes it all the more natural that their development here should provide this space.

Re: Wells Fargo Redevelopment - 801 Portland - 16 stories - 180'

Posted: March 22nd, 2019, 1:07 pm
by Silophant
rhettcarlson wrote:
March 22nd, 2019, 12:38 pm
If I remember the renderings correctly you're right, there is a small portion next to the alley that is a single story. But all of the new retail square footage is along 8th under the tower. 3-4 walkup units on Park as shown in the plans must be staying.
Bizarre.

Re: Wells Fargo Redevelopment - 801 Portland - 16 stories - 180'

Posted: March 22nd, 2019, 1:32 pm
by MNdible
alexschief wrote:
March 22nd, 2019, 12:48 pm
This could double as my response to the discussion on the Elliot Park thread on the First Covenant project, but swapping retail for housing at the ground level is a good trade.
Even though the two locations are only like three blocks away from each other, I'd argue that this location is at least 50 times better for retail than First Covenant. Housing can go pretty much anywhere and be fine, but retail is very fussy about being in the right spot.

Re: Downtown Minneapolis General Topics & Development Map

Posted: June 22nd, 2019, 10:29 am
by Homewood2009
grant1simons2 wrote:
June 21st, 2018, 8:57 pm
Silophant wrote:
April 16th, 2018, 1:31 pm
It's apparently being built by K-A. They're proposing (hold on to your hats) a six-story stick-built apartment building with a WF branch in the base. (Locked)

Hooray.
16 stories now

https://mspsocial.net/@t54r4n1/100245503159870273
I went by this yesterday and noticed barriers being placed around the site. As I went back through this thread, I noticed the comments from 6-21-18. Seemed timely.

Re: Wells Fargo Redevelopment - 801 Portland - 16 stories - 180'

Posted: June 24th, 2019, 7:39 am
by downtowndweller
I would guess the barriers are for 8th St. construction and not this development.

Re: Wells Fargo Redevelopment - 801 Portland - 16 stories - 180'

Posted: June 24th, 2019, 9:50 am
by twinkess
downtowndweller wrote:
June 24th, 2019, 7:39 am
I would guess the barriers are for 8th St. construction and not this development.
I thought so too, but then I saw them. They've got the Kraus Anderson logo on them.

Re: Wells Fargo Redevelopment - 801 Portland - 16 stories - 180'

Posted: June 24th, 2019, 1:56 pm
by Silophant
BizJournals confirms it. (unlocked)

Note that, like Rafter on the other side of the river, they've got to get the new WF branch built and opened before starting the tower, so that doesn't start until next spring.

Re: Wells Fargo Redevelopment - 801 Portland - 16 stories - 180'

Posted: June 24th, 2019, 5:06 pm
by downtowndweller
Ah good catch, couldn’t see those from the other side of the block. Exciting to see this neighborhood continue to grow. Now if we could just get some restaurants and retail to follow.

Re: Wells Fargo Redevelopment - 801 Portland - 16 stories - 180'

Posted: June 24th, 2019, 6:48 pm
by Anondson
It’s also called “The Larking”. I don’t know if that was mentioned often before, but F&C notes it.

https://finance-commerce.com/2019/06/kr ... -building/

Re: Wells Fargo Redevelopment - 801 Portland - 16 stories - 180'

Posted: June 27th, 2019, 6:34 pm
by twinkess
The 12 lane drive-through started coming down today.

Re: Wells Fargo Redevelopment - 801 Portland - 16 stories - 180'

Posted: June 28th, 2019, 2:23 pm
by twincitizen
Silophant wrote:
June 24th, 2019, 1:56 pm
BizJournals confirms it. (unlocked)

Note that, like Rafter on the other side of the river, they've got to get the new WF branch built and opened before starting the tower, so that doesn't start until next spring.
How do we think the ban on new drive-thru buildings would affect future projects like this one? For example, the WF branch on East Hennepin, near Rafter/USBank. I generally support the idea of banning new drive-thrus, but you have to allow for stuff like Rafter and this project to happen. There has to be some kind of exemption for replacement, even if not on the same exact site. Like for example, what if WF wanted to build a new branch elsewhere in NE, but in exchange would allow their entire property on East Hennepin to be developed? President Rockwell, are you listening?

Re: Wells Fargo Redevelopment - 801 Portland - 16 stories - 180'

Posted: June 28th, 2019, 3:28 pm
by Seth
twincitizen wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 2:23 pm
Silophant wrote:
June 24th, 2019, 1:56 pm
BizJournals confirms it. (unlocked)

Note that, like Rafter on the other side of the river, they've got to get the new WF branch built and opened before starting the tower, so that doesn't start until next spring.
How do we think the ban on new drive-thru buildings would affect future projects like this one? For example, the WF branch on East Hennepin, near Rafter/USBank. I generally support the idea of banning new drive-thrus, but you have to allow for stuff like Rafter and this project to happen. There has to be some kind of exemption for replacement, even if not on the same exact site. Like for example, what if WF wanted to build a new branch elsewhere in NE, but in exchange would allow their entire property on East Hennepin to be developed? President Rockwell, are you listening?
Are you implying Rafter or this project wouldn’t have happened if the banks weren’t allowed to build drive-thrus?. They probably would have simply designated a few short term parking spaces in the ramps (if they already don’t). Banks aren’t going to disappear because they can’t have a drive-thru.

Re: Wells Fargo Redevelopment - 801 Portland - 16 stories - 180'

Posted: June 28th, 2019, 3:36 pm
by VacantLuxuries
The implication is they might not want to lose their nonconforming use. In the future, they won't propose building a tower next to a new branch if it means a location that currently has a drive thru would lose it in the new building.

Re: Wells Fargo Redevelopment - 801 Portland - 16 stories - 180'

Posted: July 2nd, 2019, 10:30 am
by twincitizen
VacantLuxuries wrote:
June 28th, 2019, 3:36 pm
The implication is they might not want to lose their nonconforming use. In the future, they won't propose building a tower next to a new branch if it means a location that currently has a drive thru would lose it in the new building.
Exactly. My fear is that the drive-thru ban will inadvertently preserve existing drive-thrus that would otherwise get redeveloped like the Rafter & Larking situations. Banks absolutely will stay in their current facilities if moving to a new one meant losing the drive thru. Same goes for CVS, Walgreens, etc.

Re: Wells Fargo Redevelopment - 801 Portland - 16 stories - 180'

Posted: July 2nd, 2019, 11:11 pm
by Multimodal
At some point the land value becomes more important than the drive-thru.

At some point, the number of users of a drive-thru tumbles.

And at some point, societal pressure—much like against cigarette smoking in buildings—will build to the point where there will be no more drive-thru’s.

Companies are driven by humans, and are susceptible to the same resistance-to-change.

Re: Wells Fargo Redevelopment - 801 Portland - 16 stories - 180'

Posted: July 3rd, 2019, 9:13 am
by xandrex
That's probably true, though Manhattan had a drive-thru McDonald's until about 5 years ago. (It ended up being swallowed by the Hudson Yards development from the looks of it).

Re: Wells Fargo Redevelopment - 801 Portland - 16 stories - 180'

Posted: July 3rd, 2019, 1:28 pm
by SurlyLHT
Drive thrus might be less important in the Bite Squad days anyhow..or eventually they may be.