Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 23 stories - 256'

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
grant1simons2
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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 18-20 stories

Postby grant1simons2 » August 7th, 2018, 10:34 am

Good to know. If this is something open later it would be a major win

dajazz
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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 18-20 stories

Postby dajazz » August 7th, 2018, 11:52 am

grant1simons2 wrote:
August 7th, 2018, 9:21 am
A Walgreens 4 blocks from a brand (kinda) new Walgreens?
Yup, developer of it has several ongoing residential projects in the North Loop and has been trying to bring in something for awhile to support the growing population. Haven’t heard anything about the hours of operation so can’t speak to that.

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 18-20 stories

Postby fehler » August 7th, 2018, 2:22 pm

Why block a skyway to this development? It would start a new link to buildings in the North Loop, and better access to the A ramp.

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 18-20 stories

Postby MNdible » August 7th, 2018, 2:31 pm

The Warehouse District historic guidelines are very clear about no skyways, and I think that's one that isn't likely to get overturned. So if they added a skyway here, it would be serving only that building. I can see why the developers might want it, but I don't think the city gets any greater good out of it.

Also, it would obstruct that great long vista down the avenue.

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 18-20 stories

Postby rhettcarlson » August 7th, 2018, 3:05 pm

Silophant wrote:
August 6th, 2018, 10:46 pm
The tower, while running the length of the block, will be set back after the third floor - about 30' from Hennepin and about 60' from Washington.
I'm always confused as to why architects are insistent on doing this with the new product we're seeing. What's the precedent for 3 stories when most of the remaining original office stock on Hennepin (Lumber Exchange, Masonic Temple, etc.) is 8-12 stories? There is a good chance the original building on this site was higher than 3 stories. We need something to hold the corner and effectively "right size" the massive intersection of Washington and Hennepin. Continue the tight canyon of original Hennepin buildings instead of opening up the way the street does at the Gateway. Stanton's proposal years ago had height right up to the corner.

The architect at DMNA did say something about a setback requirement from Washington for lighting/shadow purposes, which would explain it, but I don't quite understand the reasoning.

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 18-20 stories

Postby rhettcarlson » August 7th, 2018, 3:18 pm

Some very preliminary massings/renderings from DMNA:

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 18-20 stories

Postby MNdible » August 7th, 2018, 3:33 pm

That big setback at the corner may be out of respect to (and to accommodate future redevelopment of) the 21st Century Bank building, which the landowner also owns.

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 18-20 stories

Postby Silophant » August 7th, 2018, 3:48 pm

As I understood it, their original plan was for a 16-18 story tower without setbacks. Then the city planner suggested that a taller, narrower building would go over better, so it gained two stories and the setbacks. At that point, they shifted the mass of the tower south as far as possible to maximize the amount of building that wouldn't be shadowed by the Gateway Tower across Hennepin.

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 18-20 stories

Postby EOst » August 8th, 2018, 9:09 am

rhettcarlson wrote:
August 7th, 2018, 3:05 pm
I'm always confused as to why architects are insistent on doing this with the new product we're seeing. What's the precedent for 3 stories when most of the remaining original office stock on Hennepin (Lumber Exchange, Masonic Temple, etc.) is 8-12 stories? There is a good chance the original building on this site was higher than 3 stories.
Image

Temple Court

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 18-20 stories

Postby rhettcarlson » August 8th, 2018, 12:00 pm

^ Beautiful! I'd like it if the architect could channel that presence on Wash/Henn. I suppose it's all a matter of opinion though.

Good ideas on the reasoning behind the setback...

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 18-20 stories

Postby Squidward » August 8th, 2018, 8:09 pm

Why is it that most of these beautiful old buildings were destroyed in downtown Minneapolis and St. Paul when in Europe - if they dodged war - they were maintained and still persist to today and add lots of character to their cities? I feel like the Twin Cities' historic charm was lost when these buildings and the Nicollet Hotel were destroyed; could feel a lot more like an older city such as Boston or Philadelphia.

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 18-20 stories

Postby seanrichardryan » August 8th, 2018, 9:29 pm

Cars.
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

transplant
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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 18-20 stories

Postby transplant » August 9th, 2018, 8:36 am

^This and air conditioning. Air conditioning completely changed the way buildings were designed. All glass with no operable windows. Old buildings had to have operable windows and they would have fried in all glass so they had thick masonry walls. Many other factors of course but cars and air conditioning are the two major factors.

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 18-20 stories

Postby EOst » August 9th, 2018, 8:45 am

Also, the heart of downtown shifted half a mile southwest to around 7th St in the early 20th century. This left the Bridge Square/Gateway area isolated from most commercial/office activity, which led to the Skid Row thing.

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 18-20 stories

Postby Chef » August 9th, 2018, 9:32 am

A lot of the Victorian ornamentation wasn't well suited to our climate. A friend of mine was almost hit by a several ton piece of the facade that fell off the building next to It's Greek To Me, in Lynlake in the early '90s. The building was torn down soon after. I know that this has happened several times in the Warehouse District too. Macalester's historic Old Main was torn down in the '80s because it was too structurally unstable to renovate. We romanticize Victorian era buildings as being structurally solid and well designed but that is partially because the ones that weren't are already gone.

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 18-20 stories

Postby QuietBlue » August 9th, 2018, 10:03 am

Stuff (not just buildings) generally goes through a period of being considered ugly/dated/tacky first before it becomes historical/vintage/cool. It's why people love the charm and style of houses from the early 20th century, but not ones from 30-40 years ago. Or why people are buying brand new furniture that looks like the 80's furniture my parents have in their basement.

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 18-20 stories

Postby aeisenberg » August 9th, 2018, 1:54 pm

QuietBlue wrote:
August 9th, 2018, 10:03 am
Stuff (not just buildings) generally goes through a period of being considered ugly/dated/tacky first before it becomes historical/vintage/cool. It's why people love the charm and style of houses from the early 20th century, but not ones from 30-40 years ago. Or why people are buying brand new furniture that looks like the 80's furniture my parents have in their basement.
This. And in Europe, a lot of the old buildings have been around a lot longer than *our* old buildings, which give them a deeper cultural / sentimental value.
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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 18-20 stories

Postby Avian » August 10th, 2018, 3:18 pm

Frankly, while Victorian-era commercial architecture may have its charms, that style of residential architecture is something I find downright repulsive. It is born of the separation of human and the environment. Windows "frame" a view of nature that is to be regarded as distant, decorative, fit to be tamed by Man and not something that is to be inhabited. It's carved up rooms further the sense of class distinction. Romanticizing a repressive and stiffly formal way of living makes my skin crawl.

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 18-20 stories

Postby John21 » September 13th, 2018, 10:47 am


amiller92
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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 18-20 stories

Postby amiller92 » September 13th, 2018, 10:56 am

I suppose there's a reason the tower is set back from Washington, but it looks weird in the rendering.


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