Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 250 Hennepin Ave - 21 stories - 256'

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twincitizen
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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 23 stories - 256'

Postby twincitizen » August 19th, 2019, 3:54 pm

(from the F&C story about Dinkytower:)
[CA Ventures] is currently developing an 18- to 20-story, mixed-use apartment at 240 and 258 Hennepin Ave. The developer paid $18.4 million for that half-block site, according to certificates of real estate value made public on Thursday.

The seller was 21st Century Bank. The deal, which closed Aug. 13, works out to about $14.3 million per acre. Chicago-based Harlem Irving Cos. is a co-developer on the project.
It appears the sale includes the 21st Century Bank building at 17 N Washington Ave, which would remain in place alongside the new development, so that does help explain the extremely high sale price.

Note: This transaction does not appear to include the parking lot at 258 Hennepin, which is also part of the development site. That lot is owned by Dolphin staffing, which is a tenant at the 21st Century Bank building. I assume CA Ventures will be buying that lot in a separate transaction (and possibly building underground parking for Dolphin in the new building?)

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 23 stories - 256'

Postby Qhaberl » August 20th, 2019, 1:28 pm

Glad to hear this one is still working its way through the planning/preconstruction process. Hopefully construction starts on this one sometime next year. I always worry that we’re going to be hit with an economic slowdown, and some of these great developments won’t happen.



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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 23 stories - 256'

Postby Silophant » August 20th, 2019, 7:40 pm

Yeah, I was assuming this had died after eight months of no news. Hopefully they can get started soon and stay aligned with the Hennepin reconstruction.

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 23 stories - 256'

Postby luigipaladio » August 22nd, 2019, 11:10 am

It’s too bad this project doesn’t include replacing the 21st Century Bank Building. It is a sad remnant of the worst architecture to come out of the massive urban “renewal” project of the 1960’s. Perhaps once this tower is complete, the bank building could be tackled for a scaled down companion to the tower.

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 23 stories - 256'

Postby Nathan » August 22nd, 2019, 12:23 pm

luigipaladio wrote:
August 22nd, 2019, 11:10 am
It’s too bad this project doesn’t include replacing the 21st Century Bank Building. It is a sad remnant of the worst architecture to come out of the massive urban “renewal” project of the 1960’s. Perhaps once this tower is complete, the bank building could be tackled for a scaled down companion to the tower.
I love the dolphin staffing building, I think it needs a coat of paint, but for a cute modernist building it does a very good job of sitting in the urban footprint. It would also be very easy to box off the first floor parking and create an active street use.

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 23 stories - 256'

Postby martykoessel » August 22nd, 2019, 12:39 pm

Yes, Nathan, I agree. Enclosing that first floor would make the 21st Century Bank Building a nice part of the city. In general, I sometimes think we're in danger of repeating some of the worst urban planning mistakes of the past, namely tearing down buildings because they look out of date or represent an architectural era we don't respect at the moment. In this regard, to this building I might add the City of Lakes and Minneapolis Public Services buildings on that block kitty-corner from City Hall. I see some posts here essentially saying, "Move out the City offices and tear the suckers down!" but I'm wondering if the day will come when we regret that eagerness. I'm still lightly mourning the loss of the old Lutheran Brotherhood Building, another child of the same genre.

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 23 stories - 256'

Postby luigipaladio » August 22nd, 2019, 2:08 pm

It seems to me that when the bank building went up, it was white - which at least referenced the Yamasaki gem at Washington and Hennepin. The current buff color does the building no favors. It fit the neighborhood better when the Jaguar dealership was across the street, but at this point it does not connect with anything in the area. Perhaps a coat of paint would help, but this is not a modernist star. The old Lutheran Brotherhood building was a real loss as far as mid-century modern design went, but this is not of the same quality or elegance. I actually liked it when it was built. A sidewalk friendly first floor and the right coat of paint might win me over again.

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 23 stories - 256'

Postby luigipaladio » August 22nd, 2019, 2:10 pm

The City of Lakes and Minneapolis Public Service buildings are good remnants of the period. I only hope they can find someone that would want to use them with out destroying the shells.

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 23 stories - 256'

Postby Nathan » August 22nd, 2019, 4:46 pm

luigipaladio wrote:
August 22nd, 2019, 2:08 pm
It seems to me that when the bank building went up, it was white - which at least referenced the Yamasaki gem at Washington and Hennepin. The current buff color does the building no favors. It fit the neighborhood better when the Jaguar dealership was across the street, but at this point it does not connect with anything in the area. Perhaps a coat of paint would help, but this is not a modernist star. The old Lutheran Brotherhood building was a real loss as far as mid-century modern design went, but this is not of the same quality or elegance. I actually liked it when it was built. A sidewalk friendly first floor and the right coat of paint might win me over again.
But buildings that are literally boxes with uniform square windows but faced with brick are somehow more historic or important? The dolphin staffing building is just as or more interesting and good looking as the duffey paper building on Washington that people are getting excited about preserving because it's "historic" even though it's not necessarily a good building for the modern era. It's a difference of what 20 to 30 years? We need to be interested in preserving architecture not preferences.

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 23 stories - 256'

Postby alexschief » August 23rd, 2019, 8:05 am

martykoessel wrote:
August 22nd, 2019, 12:39 pm
In general, I sometimes think we're in danger of repeating some of the worst urban planning mistakes of the past, namely tearing down buildings because they look out of date or represent an architectural era we don't respect at the moment.
The big mistake of urban renewal wasn't that it tore down old buildings, it was that it tore down an urban fabric and replaced it with nothing. If midcentury planners and architects had torn down the old buildings and replaced them with newer buildings that had ground floor retail and a mix of uses, there would be far fewer complaints.

It's a mistake to view the problem as one of style. Architectural fads come and go. But the principles of good urban design are far more permanent.

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 23 stories - 256'

Postby dajazz » August 23rd, 2019, 8:15 am

luigipaladio wrote:
August 22nd, 2019, 2:10 pm
The City of Lakes and Minneapolis Public Service buildings are good remnants of the period. I only hope they can find someone that would want to use them with out destroying the shells.
I'm in the camp of tear the Public Service building down. I dread every time I have to go in that building.

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 23 stories - 256'

Postby twincitizen » August 23rd, 2019, 9:32 am

alexschief wrote:
August 23rd, 2019, 8:05 am
martykoessel wrote:
August 22nd, 2019, 12:39 pm
In general, I sometimes think we're in danger of repeating some of the worst urban planning mistakes of the past, namely tearing down buildings because they look out of date or represent an architectural era we don't respect at the moment.
The big mistake of urban renewal wasn't that it tore down old buildings, it was that it tore down an urban fabric and replaced it with nothing. If midcentury planners and architects had torn down the old buildings and replaced them with newer buildings that had ground floor retail and a mix of uses, there would be far fewer complaints.

It's a mistake to view the problem as one of style. Architectural fads come and go. But the principles of good urban design are far more permanent.
This is extremely on point. I don't think I've seen the problem of the Gateway area / urban renewal stated so succinctly.

Here's my much less concise expansion of your statement:
The problem with Gateway area / Washington Square isn't the architecture - above the ground floor, the buildings are good/great. It's the huge setbacks, total lack of ground floor storefronts & sidewalk presence, and lack of integration with anything around it. The area needs another half dozen Penny's-like additions before it could resemble something one could call "urban fabric". This area still has a long, long way to go...probably 10-20 years or more. And that really sucks considering everything awesome happening around this area (rapid infill of North Loop, Mill District and CBD). Someone needs to do a "Calhoun Towers"-style infill development of the area between The Churchill, River Towers and Washington Square. We can't line Hennepin with buildings because of Gateway Park, but I guess there's still hope for infilling the frontages on Washington Ave & 2nd Street around here. The vacated / car-free portion of 2nd Street between Hennepin and Marquette could an awesome mix of public/quasi-public park and coffee/dining/retail/etc.

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 23 stories - 256'

Postby Silophant » October 2nd, 2019, 6:00 am

Utility connection permits have been pulled for this site, as of last Monday. Something's happening.

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 23 stories - 256'

Postby grant1simons2 » October 2nd, 2019, 4:48 pm

Starting up within the next few weeks. Construction drawings are ready to go!

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 23 stories - 256'

Postby TroyGBiv » October 2nd, 2019, 7:25 pm

Wow. It is really interesting to see the stark contrast between some projects that seem to take years and other that suddenly appear and are quickly moved through the city and on to ground breaking fast... I suspect that is the difference between developers who are very good at what they do and others who are maybe less disciplined or hadn't done some preparation prior to announcing their project.

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 23 stories - 256'

Postby TroyGBiv » October 2nd, 2019, 7:33 pm

seriously - this project has 4 pages on Forums and we are almost breaking ground... some projects have 100 pages and still nothing...

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 23 stories - 256'

Postby luigipaladio » October 2nd, 2019, 8:41 pm

It is so good to see that this project is going to happen. It will be a great addition both to the Hennepin and Washington streetscapes. I suspect it will even help the Gateway tower make a more comfortable fit. The two towers will provide something of a true gateway for Hennepin . Bravo!

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 23 stories - 256'

Postby UrbWave » October 4th, 2019, 3:38 pm

Going to be a musical fall season with pile-driving happening here and Eleven! Could hear Gateway from all over town earlier this summer. Feel a bit bad for 365 and other residents though.
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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 23 stories - 256'

Postby Minneboy » October 4th, 2019, 7:28 pm

All the penthouses on the top 2 living floors are less than 1000 sf. I guess it's the view you'll be paying for. Over all I"m happy with this tower.. It offers a lot. I hope the retail areas work out well.

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Re: Harlem Irving and CA Ventures - 240 Hennepin Ave - 23 stories - 256'

Postby Cat349F » October 5th, 2019, 8:59 pm

UrbWave wrote:
October 4th, 2019, 3:38 pm
Going to be a musical fall season with pile-driving happening here and Eleven! Could hear Gateway from all over town earlier this summer. Feel a bit bad for 365 and other residents though.
The majority of the piling here is ‘drill and set’, similar to Archive at 1st and 1st. No prolonged periods of constant pounding.
The CZM rig was parked over there because we are running out of room at Gateway. We are being told 3-4 weeks before we can start.


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