Nicollet 301 - 20 stories - 241'

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
twincitizen
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Re: Nicollet 301 - 20 stories - ~200'(?)

Postby twincitizen » June 14th, 2019, 10:59 am

lordmoke wrote:
June 13th, 2019, 3:29 pm
Plans from CoW: http://minneapolismn.gov/www/groups/pub ... 219353.pdf

Looks nicer than any other Opus building so far.
I don't hate it. The single 5,000 sq. ft. restaurant space on Nicollet is not sufficient, especially when considering the Gateway project is barely adding any street-fronting retail either. How is there no demand for retail here, but the AECOM project at 800 Washington can propose like 6+ retail bays? At a bare minimum, Opus must convert that 1,125-sq. ft. 2BR-unit at the corner of 3rd & Marquette to commercial. It's perfectly-sized for small, basic retail.

grant1simons2
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Re: Nicollet 301 - 20 stories - ~200'(?)

Postby grant1simons2 » June 14th, 2019, 12:15 pm

Just noticed the other day that the skyway access is redundant too since they just built this floor plan at 365 Nicollet

To add, they claimed 365 is having a difficult time finding a "destination restaurant" to fill this large space. So why would you want 2 large scale destination restaurants on your sites if you're having a hard time finding just one? Retail is hard, I get it. But, is it really that worth it in the long run to go big, instead of creating a street front that people will want to visit and attract more customers to one restaurant.
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alexschief
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Re: Nicollet 301 - 20 stories - ~200'(?)

Postby alexschief » June 14th, 2019, 1:03 pm

This submission is really catnip for the CoW, because this proposal has a lot of areas where a little bit of improvement would go a long way.

The massing of the building is off, there needs to be a better delineation between the Nicollet "tower" portion and the Marquette/3rd "slab" portion. It's probably too much to turn this one building into two, but the details of the facades and the arrangement of its two volumes could be improved.

Then there's the streetscape, as everyone is referencing. The Marquette side is such an afterthought, I'm almost tempted to believe they have some back-up plans somewhere that they'll easily swap in to show improvement. It's remarkable that something so thoughtless was submitted. The 3rd Street side isn't that much better though. I'm not a fan of the set-back walk-up unit design where it appears in the Mill District, and it'll feel even worse here in the heart of downtown. I know my tastes are not universal, but I find it hard to believe that people with ground floor units are going to be sitting out drinking coffee in their pajamas in these little patios. Retail would be far better.

I echo Grant's sentiment. Retail is hard, it can be the hardest to lease and it is a changing landscape all the time. But there's no substitute for active storefronts. One of the most important jobs of the CoW is coaxing developers to take a risk on this.

fehler
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Re: Nicollet 301 - 20 stories - ~200'(?)

Postby fehler » June 14th, 2019, 2:53 pm

I wish there was more setback along Nicollet, it looks like it will be boxing in Cancer Survivors "Park", when it really should be opening up to it and a future path to the river.

luigipaladio
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Re: Nicollet 301 - 20 stories - ~200'(?)

Postby luigipaladio » June 14th, 2019, 3:26 pm

At first glance, there are some interesting elements to this.. The cantilevered bay on the Nicollet side should make a great spot for some people watching if we can ever get more pedestrian traffic at this end of the Mall. The distance between the tower component and 365 is sensible and it is not a twin to 365. Thankfully, they did hide much of the parking ramp.
But the black “ headband” and the stretch of dismal base along Nicollet puts this design back in the sixties. It is better than most ESG and Opus projects, but that is a low bar indeed. I think they will have a hard time filling the restaurant/retail space. I also think they would have a hard time filling the space as smaller retail units, but finding some creative retailers would add a lot to this area.

alexschief
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Re: Nicollet 301 - 20 stories - ~200'(?)

Postby alexschief » June 14th, 2019, 4:48 pm

fehler wrote:
June 14th, 2019, 2:53 pm
I wish there was more setback along Nicollet, it looks like it will be boxing in Cancer Survivors "Park", when it really should be opening up to it and a future path to the river.
Hard disagree on this. Cancer Survivors Park and the surrounding gateway area suffers as an urban place because it is too open. Fully filling in this space, including holding a line along Nicollet, will give a greater definition to CSP. Instead of feeling like a lawn amid a large vacant area, it'll become a green pocket amid a dense urban area.

Heading northward, Nicollet will suddenly open up at 3rd, as the Gateway tower base peels back on the left and CSP emerges on the right. Contrast between open and closed spaces is more interesting than a succession of undefined, somewhat open spaces.

Silophant
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Re: Nicollet 301 - 20 stories - 241'

Postby Silophant » September 8th, 2019, 12:49 pm

This'll be going to the CPC on Sept. 23rd, according to a letter I just got from CPED. Hopefully they've made some changes since June.

bapster2006
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Re: Nicollet 301 - 20 stories - 241'

Postby bapster2006 » September 18th, 2019, 5:39 pm


alexschief
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Re: Nicollet 301 - 20 stories - 241'

Postby alexschief » September 19th, 2019, 8:12 am

The Frankstein-esque design of this has... not improved much. Still don't like the walk-ups along 3rd St. S and the lack of activation along Marquette. This building reads as two buildings, but I think the mass isn't broken up enough, and this is going to feel like a really massive, somewhat confused wall.

Opus has turned in reliably B- projects for these blocks.
Last edited by alexschief on September 19th, 2019, 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

bubzki2
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Re: Nicollet 301 - 20 stories - 241'

Postby bubzki2 » September 19th, 2019, 8:25 am

This would be a pretty nice project on the outskirts of downtown, like Elliot Park. It's just a shame it's being proposed in such a prime location that could support something much more ambitious. Eating up the surface lots at least.

SurlyLHT
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Re: Nicollet 301 - 20 stories - 241'

Postby SurlyLHT » September 19th, 2019, 10:49 am

Along with Gateway this will help build a decent wall of towers. Anyone else remember when Nic on 5th was being built and it was a wonder that a tower was being built after the recession and this area seemed to have a bit of life? So much has changed. Hopefully the city can stay up on the crime and homeless problem.

BigIdeasGuy
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Re: Nicollet 301 - 20 stories - 241'

Postby BigIdeasGuy » September 19th, 2019, 12:26 pm

So Opus turned the most developable and valuable surface parking lot between the coast not in Texas or Chicago into 50 stories of apartments, a metric ton of parking, zero good street frontages, a parking ramp that looms over Nicollet and 4th, and about minimal amount of retail. All on block that zero top end restrictions, the city literally would green lit anything without delay.

Cool.

And I'm someone who likes the architecture of 365 Nicollet.

mattaudio
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Re: Nicollet 301 - 20 stories - 241'

Postby mattaudio » September 19th, 2019, 12:44 pm

I'm really disappointed with how Marquette keeps getting shafted by some of these projects. Nic on 5th put a Starbucks on their Marquette corner (which is great) but Opus has done nothing on their block. Even the upper parking podium levels aren't screened like 3rd and Nicollet.

luigipaladio
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Re: Nicollet 301 - 20 stories - 241'

Postby luigipaladio » September 21st, 2019, 7:42 pm

This is actually one of ESG’s better designs. The masking of the parking podium is better than most and the building is actually interesting. It is not another featureless box and it has more grace than the heavy-handed beast next door.

martykoessel
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Re: Nicollet 301 - 20 stories - 241'

Postby martykoessel » November 19th, 2019, 3:37 pm

Question:
At one time there was a plan for an awful skyway running from the Gateway project to Marquette Plaza. I’m assuming this was replaced by the proposal to run the skyway from the Gateway through the library to 301 Nicollet, then on to 365, etc, etc. Does anyone know if 301 were not to be built, does Opus have a legal obligation to provide a skyway connection nonetheless?

HiawathaGuy
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Re: Nicollet 301 - 20 stories - 241'

Postby HiawathaGuy » November 19th, 2019, 4:58 pm

martykoessel wrote:
November 19th, 2019, 3:37 pm
Question:
At one time there was a plan for an awful skyway running from the Gateway project to Marquette Plaza. I’m assuming this was replaced by the proposal to run the skyway from the Gateway through the library to 301 Nicollet, then on to 365, etc, etc. Does anyone know if 301 were not to be built, does Opus have a legal obligation to provide a skyway connection nonetheless?
I would imagine this was definitely in the details in order for RBC and Four Seasons to sign a lease.
Also, did this get fully approved? I'm curious when they plan to start - as this would mean three 'big' projects all happening in very close proximity.

Silophant
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Re: Nicollet 301 - 20 stories - 241'

Postby Silophant » November 19th, 2019, 5:39 pm

Yes, this was approved by the CPC at the end of September. Based on previous projects proposed for public parking parcels, the first indication that it's moving will be a sign on the paybox informing us that the lot will be closing in a few weeks. I haven't seen one of those yet, so I doubt this will start before the first of the year.


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