urbanMSP

I still wish they'd add more retail - unless I'm looking at it wrong, the only ground-floor retail is the restaurant space. The food and beverage cart under the viaducts is unique, but I am not sure how much of a draw it will be for anyone who isn't already in this building or T3.

People waiting for commuter rail departures?

Seems there is a proposed publicly accessible dog park to be made under the 3rd street viaduct.

The scale is excellent and the location will patch a gaping hole in the urban fabric. Great looking design, positive (quasi)public space, extremely inventive site plan, mix of uses is fantastic and will bring a lot to the area. The restaurant on the amenity level will have absolutely killer views of the skyline and of baseball. There's a lot to like about this project.

I am a bit bummed that the amount of parking they could fit between the existing grade and the 5th St grade wasn't enough for them, and they're digging an additional two floors down. This is one of the most transit-walk-bike connected parcels imaginable, and yet the amount of parking they are proposing here will induce trips beyond what you might've ordinarily expected.

Overall, one of the most exciting parts of this project is its potential to influence the land use in more than just its parcel, by extending the artificial and silly boundaries of the CBD area across Hennepin and through the Warehouse District/North Loop. I would hope that it would draw some attention to the infill parcels along 4th and 5th, between Hennepin and the highway cut. Without sounding too much like I just jumped straight out of Skyscraper City, there are eligible lots at the northern corner of 4th St and 1st Ave, between the Gay 90's and Brass Rail, and of course the giant lot next to the Warehouse District Station, which all would be good targets for 15+ story residential. The railroad, parking, and highway infrastructure are big barriers in this area, but this project helps bridge them a bit, and that's really exciting.

Do we know if they'll be seeking public funding/assistance for the quasi-public elements? (plaza, stairs, dog park, etc.) I'd hope they secure the usual small grants from Met Council and/or Hennepin County for site cleanup, TOD, etc., but those usually don't amount to much. I'm wondering if they'd look for something more, like TIF or tax abatement, in exchange for building a significant public amenity.

What's the history with the building currently used for public storage right next door to this? I assume that building has a history long before it's current use. Any shot it'll be repurposed back to something better than storage?

Agreed on the comments on vehicle access up a ways. If you have good signage off 3rd Ave and direct office contract and resident parking there, it could work. Might as well not give a reason to direct 500+ cars a day to 5th St. Then have a nice auto court for Ubers/drop-offs that are probably 15-20% of the traffic coming to the site anyway.

Word on the street is that the North Loop Neighborhood Association Planning and Zoning Committee will be sending a letter of support for this, which is good to hear.

People waiting for commuter rail departures?

Is there any reason that they couldn't build a connection to the northeast end of the Northstar platform from the area under the viaducts? It's proof of payment like the LRT, so I don't think they necessarily have to funnel everyone through the headhouse(?) up by the LRT platforms, do they?

People waiting for commuter rail departures?

Is there any reason that they couldn't build a connection to the northeast end of the Northstar platform from the area under the viaducts? It's proof of payment like the LRT, so I don't think they necessarily have to funnel everyone through the headhouse(?) up by the LRT platforms, do they?

I'm pretty sure there is already a connection from that end of the platform to the Cedar Lake Trail.

Is there any reason that they couldn't build a connection to the northeast end of the Northstar platform from the area under the viaducts? It's proof of payment like the LRT, so I don't think they necessarily have to funnel everyone through the headhouse(?) up by the LRT platforms, do they?

I'm pretty sure there is already a connection from that end of the platform to the Cedar Lake Trail.

By golly there is: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9834363 ... a=!3m1!1e3 though it's a bit further east, between the two viaducts

I run on that trail several times a week. That connection is blocked by a fence.

Lol. I knew it was a continuous fence there - I didn't realize there was actually a paved connection behind it. Guess that answers the question - just gotta get the city or county or whoever to open up the fence. And install a TVM and a couple Go-To pedestals on the platform, I suppose.

I'm sure it's the railroad that's mandating the fence.

Right. Odds are that connection exists to allow maintenance, not general use.

Right. Odds are that connection exists to allow maintenance, not general use.

It is.

I ended up going over to the CoW meeting for this presentation, since I'll be missing the next DMNA meeting (where they may or may not present). Some tidbits that weren't in the packet (or, at least, I didn't pick them up):

Dock St, in addition to being loading access for the old warehouses along 3rd, is the loading and emergency vehicle access for Target Field under 5th St, so that will be staying as-is. No possibility for it to ramp up to connect to 5th as someone suggested upthread.

The 5th St garage entrance is intended for hourly/visitor parking, the Dock St entrance for the residential/office contract parkers, which seems about as good as we'll get.

This project will have an unobstructed arcade paralleling the Cedar Lake Trail, like T3 does. Apparently this is specifically designed to give the trail a space to relocate into when the existing trail needs to be replaced with tracks for the Chicago HSR. Which is an impressive amount of planning ahead, tbh.

MnDoT is very enthusiastic about the park space under the viaducts, and will be working closely with them on it. The park is intended to be like Gold Medal Park - private, but closer to a public park than a 9-5 space.

This was a joint meeting of the CPC and the HPC. The former is broadly supportive and enthusiastic about the project, the latter is, of course, concerned about height. The project is large enough to require a TDMP and EIS, so it'll be a while before it comes for actual approvals.

That’s remarkable foresight to plan for station construction that far out.

The real virtues of this project are in the thoughtful details, such as this notion of making room for another rail line at some uncertain point in the future. The park space under the viaducts, the grand staircase, the shared amenity floor and many other details make this a particularly good plan. Here’s hoping that it all makes it through the TDMP and EIS and approval process.

In 2012, Hennepin County appealed the City's approval of the original site plan for the Dock Street apartments because it put the future of the Cedar Lake Trail at risk. Fortunately, Hines agreed to tweak the layout of the apartment building and Hennepin County worked with MnDOT and the City to buy an easement to accommodate a trail relocation through the rest of the site, should the current alignment be needed for expanded passenger rail service at some point in the future.

A good recap from when it was happening...

https://streets.mn/2012/06/08/notes-fro ... ail-forum/