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Re: The Interchange

Posted: September 13th, 2013, 12:11 pm
by mullen
sure they were quoting the president of the twins but the headline doesn't note that anywhere so it just comes off as hyperbole and stupidity. this big masthead with a silly declaration.

but all in all this is nice addition to downtown. i'm happy to see the twins, utd properties and target putting money and programming expertise into the public spaces. the last thing we need is another windswept, empty plaza.

Re: The Interchange

Posted: September 14th, 2013, 10:38 pm
by Wedgeguy
To the best of my knowledge, the Blue line stops at the TF station, the Green Line will stop at the new Interchange. This info is from a LTR driver that is part of the testing crew for the Green line.

Re: The Interchange

Posted: September 14th, 2013, 10:45 pm
by Minnekid
I read the Startribune article saying this is like our grand central station, I think it is an awful comparison. It is not at the right location to be called that, grand central is in the middle of one of the busiest parts of new york. Ours is at the edge, in front of a stadium, right by the edge of the highway. Not saying I don't like the design and its purpose, just not grand central.

Re: The Interchange

Posted: September 15th, 2013, 12:08 am
by Minnekid
Also how many tracks are there going to be. Like I know the green and blue lines start on the same track, and the southwest corridor will too. but if they want to make a train come in from the left lets say (going through north loop) for example will it have to connect to the existing track somewhere else, because I feel three train routes would create a slowing of service. So unless I'm wrong about the number of tracks, they should be preparing to build this to have a possible connection to an underground station. ;)

Re: The Interchange

Posted: September 15th, 2013, 11:10 am
by Silophant
Keep in mind that the SW corridor is going to be an extension of the Green Line, and the Bottineau corridor will be an extension of the Blue Line. Green Line trains will start at SPUD and run all the way through to Eden Prairie, and Blue Line trains will start at MOA and run through to Brooklyn Park, so it'll only be two LRT routes running through the station as currently planned.

Re: The Interchange

Posted: September 15th, 2013, 3:32 pm
by Minnekid
Is the max two? Is it going to just be an interchange of two trains?

Re: The Interchange

Posted: September 15th, 2013, 3:36 pm
by Tom H.
Eventually, the hope is that more commuter trains (Northstar already stops here) and intercity trains (Empire Builder, NLX, etc.) will stop here also.

Re: The Interchange

Posted: September 15th, 2013, 3:46 pm
by Minnekid
So no more light rail can? They are only building it to hold two?

Re: The Interchange

Posted: September 15th, 2013, 3:47 pm
by Silophant
Maybe something will eventually split off here and head down 394 towards Wayzata, but I don't think there's any plans on the horizon to run more than those two lines through the upper LRT level. The intercity platforms would be built down by the Northstar platform.

Re: The Interchange

Posted: September 18th, 2013, 9:12 am
by mister.shoes
There's a fourth webcam on the interchange site now. They added it yesterday, but it was stuck on a shot of a folding chair when I noticed it. Now it points toward the "amphitheater"—it may even be mounted on the tower crane itself.

Re: The Interchange

Posted: September 18th, 2013, 11:41 am
by David Greene
Silophant wrote:Maybe something will eventually split off here and head down 394 towards Wayzata, but I don't think there's any plans on the horizon to run more than those two lines through the upper LRT level. The intercity platforms would be built down by the Northstar platform.
I assume any additional LRT capacity would have to run on a different alignment than 5th, either at street level or underground. it might still go through the Interchange but the space there is so tight I don't know if they could shoehorn it in.

Suppose there was a N-S LRT added. Would it even go through the Interchange, or would DTE become a second "Interchange?"

Re: The Interchange

Posted: September 18th, 2013, 11:58 am
by RailBaronYarr
Well, define N-S. A line coming from North Minneapolis (or northbound along Chicago.etc), for example, would naturally flow into the E-W streets downtown. A line coming from NE Minneapolis would likely come via Central or Hennepin. Nothing really gets close enough to touch the Interchange (which is fine if its primary function is a station serving 2 LRT lines plus a bunch of commuter and regional rail lines). That's why I'm such a big fan of building a tunnel under Nicollet (heck, Hennepin would do as well) with a nice, big, underground station where it meets up with the Blue/Green lines. But alas, it won't happen.

Re: The Interchange

Posted: September 18th, 2013, 1:36 pm
by mattaudio
"The Interchange" should be at 6th and Nicollet, right in the cbd.

Re: The Interchange

Posted: September 18th, 2013, 1:48 pm
by FISHMANPET
Most big train stations aren't in the city center, they were built on the edge (which is now just off the center) with more rapid transit bringing people into the core. Union station in Chicago is outside the loop, Penn and Grand Central are outside the core business districts of Manhattan, DC's Union Station is somewhat on the edge, all of London's stations are built around the core (because they were banned from being built in the core). Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver all have their stations (Union Station, King St Station, Pacific Central Station). Even our own Union Depot is built outside of the core. A lot of this is because it's difficult to build tracks through an already developed area. When these lines were first built and the stations built, these were areas easier to build in. It's still the case that it would be very expensive to bring tracks into the CBD (even more expensive I'd say) so it makes sense from a cost perspective and also a railroading tradition perspective to keep these slightly outisde of the CBD, and provide good transit into the core. London's stations all connect to the Underground. DC's Union station has a red line stop underneath. Penn and Grand Central in NY have lot's of subway lines in them. It's a source of great shame that the Blue Line in Chicago is a few blocks walk from Union Station. Our own light rails stop right at the front of or inside of our two big railway stations. I'd say this location is perfect.

Re: The Interchange

Posted: September 18th, 2013, 8:44 pm
by mattaudio
I wasn't referring to an intercity rail station at 6th/Nicollet. Just a primary interchange for four rapid/LRT lines serving 8 branches.

Re: The Interchange

Posted: September 19th, 2013, 6:34 am
by mullen
yes i don't think this is an issue. this site is pretty close to the center of our core business district. it's a couple blocks from the core of the entertainment district. it's fine.

that downtown tunneling dreams are just that. there was planning foresight to do this back in the 70's but not the financial or political will. hindsight is 20/20 and this is unfortunate but back in those days we didn't see ourselves as this rail center. the railroads were closing stations and cutting service. still bugs me the station that sat on hennepin, (where the federal reserve bank sits now) was demolished. it would have worked perfectly as our "interchange". and this is essentially what the union depot in st paul will become.

Re: The Interchange

Posted: September 19th, 2013, 10:08 am
by at40man
Would there be a way to entice Greyhound to relocate near the Interchange? It's odd that they allow Jefferson Lines to eat up all their potential business in St Paul. And unlike Jefferson Lines, the current Greyhound station isn't exactly a pleasant place to wait for a bus or layover. Putting their station near the Interchange would be a win-win situation for everyone.
still bugs me the station that sat on hennepin, (where the federal reserve bank sits now) was demolished.
Agreed, what a beautiful building, and perfect location. That said, we are fortunate to still have the most prominent and architecturally significant train station in the Twin Cities still remain in existence for decades after our transit network was gutted - and now lovingly restored!

Re: The Interchange

Posted: September 19th, 2013, 10:13 am
by mattaudio
^I thought there are absolutely zero bus facilities at the "Interchange." Nothing for intercity, and not even a space for a local bus to pull over and drop people off.

Re: The Interchange

Posted: September 19th, 2013, 10:21 am
by MNdible
at40man wrote:
still bugs me the station that sat on hennepin, (where the federal reserve bank sits now) was demolished.
Agreed, what a beautiful building, and perfect location. That said, we are fortunate to still have the most prominent and architecturally significant train station in the Twin Cities still remain in existence for decades after our transit network was gutted - and now lovingly restored!
Well, I'd quibble a bit. It wasn't really that beautiful of a building; compared to other old train stations, it was kind of a dog.

Also, were it still located there, the rail lines feeding it would cut the city off from the river. Given that the Interchange will never see anything approaching the traffic that the Great Northern was designed for, I'd gladly trade the benefits of removing these heavy rail lines from the core of downtown and along the river for that tired old building.

Re: The Interchange

Posted: September 19th, 2013, 10:23 am
by mattaudio
We could still have the Stone Arch Bridge for recreational use. Trains could use the NP #9 bridge, and we could have built West River Parkway as a grade separation over the rail lines to avoid disconnecting the river from Downtown.