Target Field Station (the Hotel) & Target Field Station (the Station)

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
mattaudio
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Re: United Properties Target Field Station Development

Postby mattaudio » November 14th, 2014, 10:50 am

Are you saying parking is not an odious land use? Are you a regulatory corporatist who favors big corporations rather than local economies of self reliance?

Wedgeguy
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Re: United Properties Target Field Station Development

Postby Wedgeguy » November 14th, 2014, 10:54 am

mattaudio wrote:But parking is an odious land use. Also, our existing zoning code is openly hostile to small business.
Our love of big box and low prices is what make small business difficult. There already is a Holiday across the street so that makes a convenience store pretty difficult to make a go of. Not going to get into the blame game again with you. You see the glass as half empty and I see it as half full. Maybe in 25 years they can change it to retail. But until there is truly a market and development to the walkable west on 6th and 5th, I see not reason for papered over windows for 20 years.

mattaudio
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Re: United Properties Target Field Station Development

Postby mattaudio » November 14th, 2014, 10:58 am

The problem is that we've built a zoning code, infrastructure, and methods of subsidy that pick winners and losers.. Our corporatist overlords favor big box retail and segmenting the population out into groups that never interact with each other.

You and MNdible see the glass as half full? Yeah, because you're not seeing the top of the glass. We're not Richfield-- we don't have to just take what's handed to us in one of the hottest neighborhoods in town.

aeisenberg
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Re: United Properties Target Field Station Development

Postby aeisenberg » November 14th, 2014, 11:00 am

Image
Aaron Eisenberg / Realtor, Keller Williams Integrity
612.568.5828 / aaron@agentaaron.com / 1350 Lagoon Ave #900
http://www.agentaaron.com

mattaudio
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Re: United Properties Target Field Station Development

Postby mattaudio » November 14th, 2014, 11:02 am

I'm encouraged by John's take on this situation. I like your vision, John!

MNdible
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Re: United Properties Target Field Station Development

Postby MNdible » November 14th, 2014, 11:06 am

I'd love to read more about your theories regarding our "corporatist overlords". Do you have a blog?

mattaudio
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Re: United Properties Target Field Station Development

Postby mattaudio » November 14th, 2014, 11:08 am


mplsjaromir
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Re: United Properties Target Field Station Development

Postby mplsjaromir » November 14th, 2014, 11:17 am

What sophomoric macro economic critique, I cannot believe that Fed haters still exists. It is as if the last five years didn't happen.

5th Ave Guy
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Re: United Properties Target Field Station Development

Postby 5th Ave Guy » November 14th, 2014, 11:32 am

Not sure I understand the "papered over windows for 20 years" comment. There are small businesses in buildings all over the North Loop that don't require foot traffic. For the right price they could easily lease out that space.

mattaudio
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Re: United Properties Target Field Station Development

Postby mattaudio » November 14th, 2014, 11:36 am

Exactly. Maybe it's not as profitable as a full inward-facing office floor plate, or parking. But an activated street frontage that allows for incremental intensification ought to just be the cost of doing business in our city. Anything less may be damaging to the neighborhood.

nordeast homer
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Re: United Properties Target Field Station Development

Postby nordeast homer » November 14th, 2014, 11:41 am

The fact that this is at a key location or psuedo "gateway" it is a short sighted turd of a project. Why not mixed use here? Why not hotel and office combined. It's at TF for crying out loud, what out of towner that has tickets to the game wouldn't want to stay next door if possible? I'd prefer if the building looked more modern, not a conventional building that looks like the centerpiece to an office park. Being on the rail line and part of the North Loop, make room for a bar/restaurant and some other retail. Make it part of the fabric of the neighborhood, put in an Ace Hardware or something that is lacking in the area.
I just think UP is trying to rush this when, if they put some real thought into it, they could build something a little more meaningful and successful than just a plain-Jane office building.

nickmgray
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Re: United Properties Target Field Station Development

Postby nickmgray » November 14th, 2014, 11:56 am

I think may of use forget that a lot of office space in a building like this is taken up by small businesses. I'd say that at least 25% of the office space in downtown is occupied by small businesses. you don't have to see items in a storefront to be a small business.

Let's be honest. We wouldn't be talking about the back side of this building if the developer would have submitted an image which shows the building's front side as well.

Wedgeguy
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Re: United Properties Target Field Station Development

Postby Wedgeguy » November 14th, 2014, 12:05 pm

5th Ave Guy wrote:Not sure I understand the "papered over windows for 20 years" comment. There are small businesses in buildings all over the North Loop that don't require foot traffic. For the right price they could easily lease out that space.
Go to the corner of 9th and LaSalle and you will find one of those little retail spots that were created, but no one ever felt like it could make them and money. It had been sitting empty since the building was build how many years ago. There is plenty of foot traffic with the Y half a block away, St. Thomas Across the street, Nicollet a block away. Yet this space stays empty under the Target store.

John
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Re: United Properties Target Field Station Development

Postby John » November 14th, 2014, 12:19 pm

mattaudio wrote:Exactly. Maybe it's not as profitable as a full inward-facing office floor plate, or parking. But an activated street frontage that allows for incremental intensification ought to just be the cost of doing business in our city. Anything less may be damaging to the neighborhood.
Really, a building with better street frontage with smaller scale activities likely increases the value and desirability of the project for the developer in a high density neighborhood. Investing more money from the start for design quality is good business. Some developers have a hard time fathoming that though.

John
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Re: United Properties Target Field Station Development

Postby John » November 14th, 2014, 12:21 pm

Wedgeguy wrote:Go to the corner of 9th and LaSalle and you will find one of those little retail spots that were created, but no one ever felt like it could make them and money. It had been sitting empty since the building was build how many years ago. There is plenty of foot traffic with the Y half a block away, St. Thomas Across the street, Nicollet a block away. Yet this space stays empty under the Target store.
I've always thought that would be a great retail location for a marijuana store when it's legalized. It will do a booming business! ;)

Wedgeguy
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Re: United Properties Target Field Station Development

Postby Wedgeguy » November 14th, 2014, 12:30 pm

John wrote:
Wedgeguy wrote:Go to the corner of 9th and LaSalle and you will find one of those little retail spots that were created, but no one ever felt like it could make them and money. It had been sitting empty since the building was build how many years ago. There is plenty of foot traffic with the Y half a block away, St. Thomas Across the street, Nicollet a block away. Yet this space stays empty under the Target store.
I've always thought that would be a great retail location for a marijuana store when it's legalized. It will do a booming business! ;)
Get high, then shop Target for munchies!!

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Avian
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Re: United Properties Target Field Station Development

Postby Avian » November 14th, 2014, 12:49 pm

nordeast homer wrote:...put in an Ace Hardware or something that is lacking in the area...
Gardner Hardware. http://www.gardnerhardwareco.com/ Since 1884!

But I do agree with the rest of your post. :)

“Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something.”
― Plato

5th Ave Guy
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Re: United Properties Target Field Station Development

Postby 5th Ave Guy » November 14th, 2014, 1:02 pm

Wedgeguy wrote:
5th Ave Guy wrote:Not sure I understand the "papered over windows for 20 years" comment. There are small businesses in buildings all over the North Loop that don't require foot traffic. For the right price they could easily lease out that space.
Go to the corner of 9th and LaSalle and you will find one of those little retail spots that were created, but no one ever felt like it could make them and money. It had been sitting empty since the building was build how many years ago. There is plenty of foot traffic with the Y half a block away, St. Thomas Across the street, Nicollet a block away. Yet this space stays empty under the Target store.
There are plenty of examples that counter that as well. In my building in the North Loop there are two retail spaces. One has been continuously occupied by a tax advisor that doesn't need pedestrian foot traffic to do well. Any number of businesses can go in a space like the one on this corner.

seanrichardryan
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Re: United Properties Target Field Station Development

Postby seanrichardryan » November 14th, 2014, 11:15 pm

Lillian Burg!
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

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Nathan
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Re: United Properties Target Field Station Development

Postby Nathan » November 15th, 2014, 7:52 am

The point is those places are there and the opportunity is there. Our downtown population is growing we have to be planning ahead or we're going to end up with the population and dead streets and people will move out again. It's like a chicken and egg game but we have to grow both to bea vital city.


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