Underpass Park in Toronto: why not Mpls?

[MumfordMoses]

I was just admiring this Underpass Park design in Toronto and thought something similar could happen in North Loop. The grid parameters I'm thinking of would be 10th Avenue North to at least 6th Avenue North & N 4th Street & N 5th St. The underpass would of course be the 94 North link that cuts through North Loop. This space is pretty much dead from the Salvation Army to Fulton Brewery.

For a long time I've thought the Northwest edge of Northloop (Napco Avenue area) should be a small concentration of 400-600 foot office bldgs (about 4-5) in order to stretch the skyline and relieve the CBD. I've driven over there recently and noticed signs and fencing around a Basset Creek Office development, which I know is not the same as the Basset Creek Valley Master Plan.

Here's a look at Underpass Park in Tornoto: http://urbantoronto.ca/database/projects/underpass-park

My buddy in Toronto says the city has been booming for a solid decade - this website, as many of you already know, is also referenced on another forum here: "Cities around the world".

[Aville_37]

Very urban and exactly something the North Loop needs. I've seen some really great ideas posted on this site. I wonder if someone should submit them to the city...

[Lancestar2]

that's an awful place to go to play chess! Just the thought of sitting on a bench under a freeway bridge enjoying a book just makes me laugh

I don't think that project would be very successful in drawing people under the freeway bridges! Dunwoody BLVD is next to a wonderful park and a sculpture garden I just don't see how enjoyable standing under a freeway bridge can be I like your idea of trying to improve a distasteful void although I think cost wise I think money would be more effective on other projects. Maybe I have been brainwashed by the TV media but NOTHING good has ever happened under a freeway bridge...

[min-chi-cbus]

Just turn that area under the bridge into a weekly farmer's market. Isn't that what's done under the freeway on the west end of downtown?

As far as chess goes, and since you brought it up, I always thought it'd make TONS of sense to build permanent tables and benches for checkerboard games (chess and checkers mainly) around the Chain of Lakes. Any avid chess player or even outdoor enthusiast would love to sit by the lake (possibly in the shade) and play a long game of chess in the beautiful weather with the equally beautiful scenery. I know I would! I'm envisioning the concrete table w/ 2 concrete chairs/benches like they have in places like NYC, for example. Definitely something permanent and stuck to the ground so people couldn't take off with it.

[MumfordMoses]

that's an awful place to go to play chess! Just the thought of sitting on a bench under a freeway bridge enjoying a book just makes me laugh

I don't think that project would be very successful in drawing people under the freeway bridges! Dunwoody BLVD is next to a wonderful park and a sculpture garden I just don't see how enjoyable standing under a freeway bridge can be I like your idea of trying to improve a distasteful void although I think cost wise I think money would be more effective on other projects. Maybe I have been brainwashed by the TV media but NOTHING good has ever happened under a freeway bridge...

There doesn't have to be chess tables. The big difference between Dunwood Blvd and the area I've noted are the accessible residences - many that would be only a block or two away. Plus the grid I've marked could inevitably lead right to the Twins Stadium and the Interchange. This grid could also have far more greenspace outside of the underpass shadow than first glance. The point is - kill the pavement with plant life and cover up the concrete underpass - this should be the goal in any city - maximize available space into park spaces if no one wants to build commercially or residentially - happens in other bigger cities all the time.

[Tyler]

I'd rather just get rid of the viaduct altogether. But I guess that's pipe dream territory at this point?

[612transplant]

The Lyndale/94 Underpass is owned by the Basilica, no? Or, do they have an agreement with the city to operate it somehow? I only ask because their parking is limited to parishioners at certain times, if memory serves.

That would be my go-to place for an underpass park, if they're going to do it. Imagine if the landscaping gets improved along 17th and Lyndale on the opposite side of the freeway. You could have a very nice, walkable stretch that pushes people into the Underpass Park and towards the Basilica.

Might be a pipe-dream, but it is an awfully cool idea. I would just be wary about doing it in the North Loop because I could imagine the park becoming a magnet for criminal activity in that area. Better to pioneer the idea in a spot where that is less likely to happen.

Although, the flip side is that underpasses and some parks are already magnets for criminal activity, so maybe it doesn't even matter so much. Just design it well, keep it well lit at night, and keep eyes on it...

[Lancestar2]

that's an awful place to go to play chess! Just the thought of sitting on a bench under a freeway bridge enjoying a book just makes me laugh

I don't think that project would be very successful in drawing people under the freeway bridges! Dunwoody BLVD is next to a wonderful park and a sculpture garden I just don't see how enjoyable standing under a freeway bridge can be I like your idea of trying to improve a distasteful void although I think cost wise I think money would be more effective on other projects. Maybe I have been brainwashed by the TV media but NOTHING good has ever happened under a freeway bridge...

There doesn't have to be chess tables. The big difference between Dunwood Blvd and the area I've noted are the accessible residences - many that would be only a block or two away. Plus the grid I've marked could inevitably lead right to the Twins Stadium and the Interchange. This grid could also have far more greenspace outside of the underpass shadow than first glance. The point is - kill the pavement with plant life and cover up the concrete underpass - this should be the goal in any city - maximize available space into park spaces if no one wants to build commercially or residentially - happens in other bigger cities all the time.

I do agree they should increase plant life around the area mostly grass as shrubs would block the view under the pass which I think would decrease safety. Also the difference with the example renderings you used it looks like they have more buffer from the road to the underpass where they can start the "park" in open space and continue it under the freeway bridge. Also there is a section where they can have light because there is a space where the underpass has a large gap from the different bridges. Although the north part of Dun. BLVD also has that but it's not as accessible as the south side would so it would not be as big of a draw.

Also the design had tennis and basket ball courts which is already present about 500 ft away at Loring park. I think they even have a few chess tables around the community house on the east side too. I do like the concept however there really is not much residents in the area to visit the underpass park enough to create a level of safety.

Although I do think it's realistic that once the bridges are replaced due to old age or resurfaced then any rebuild or resurfacing would take into account account the underpass.

I personally think it would be better to enclose the underpass make it a controlled entry parking lot with tons of security cameras (with unlocked doors during any events like sunday morning church ect ect) and then use the funds to help maintain a nicer underpass zone. Also any entrance to the enclossed parking ramp would be either on the East or West sides which are well lit with natural sunlight!

Unless there are towers with about 5,000 residents next door then I doubt a underpass "park" would work well... unless Loring park agreed to move there courts to this site instead... but that just seams mean lol

[MumfordMoses]

I think some of you are confused as to where I envision this park - I put the grid above - just Google or Map Quest. I'll find a map application that allows me to mark it for you. I'm not talking about the underpass over by the Basilica and Farmer's Market - I'm talking about the one that runs parallel with N 4th Street right near all the new residences in North Loop - roughly from The Salvation Army ARC (not Harbor Light) to Sharpco.

If you can imagine this space then you may realize the park will be far more green and less concrete than the underpass by the Basilica and Farmer's Market-International Market Square.

[1200onthemall]

This idea will be discussed in the next Northloop Z&P meeting

[Lancestar2]

I think some of you are confused as to where I envision this park - I put the grid above - just Google or Map Quest. I'll find a map application that allows me to mark it for you. I'm not talking about the underpass over by the Basilica and Farmer's Market - I'm talking about the one that runs parallel with N 4th Street right near all the new residences in North Loop - roughly from The Salvation Army ARC (not Harbor Light) to Sharpco.

If you can imagine this space then you may realize the park will be far more green and less concrete than the underpass by the Basilica and Farmer's Market-International Market Square.

I'm not sure why I assumed that location lol...

but with the location you suggest I think a space for 2 basketball courts 2 tennis courts under the freeway pass WITH space on the other side for a nice small park would be great! I still think the idea of tables and benches under the bridge would be a bad idea but I think it might be a nice feature to the community if done tastefully

Any "green spaces" like the spaces in front of the walker art center always makes for a ugly site IMO

[MumfordMoses]

This idea will be discussed in the next Northloop Z&P meeting

Thanks so much for posting this. What an awesome coincidence. I swear I'm not some board member leaking info or gauging interest. I think North Loop is incredibly underdeveloped as well as parcels around the Farmer's Market and the Catholic Charities' housing units.

I would love to see this park go right up to the Hines 350 North Fifth St idea - a pedestrian bridge that gracefully goes above the train tracks. I also think the 350 North Fifth Street blocks should be the location of Mpls' tallest skyscrapers - which in a way would not only stretch the skyline, but force more commercial high rises in the NW corner of North Loop. I would really like to see a few CBD's as opposed to one. Someday they'll think of putting more high rises in NE, near the vacant blocks around Ground Zero & The Red Stag. Ok, I'm getting out of hand here. Patience, patience - we're talking about Mpls now.

[Anondson]

Thread necromancy! Anything coming from this?

[Chava]

This would be fantastic. As far as the underbelly of a highway goes, that area is pretty clean and could convert to some park of public space rather easily. In some places, they've even built skate parks or dog parks(rain proof dog park?!).