Westminster Church

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
mnmike
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Westminster Church

Postby mnmike » January 30th, 2013, 2:29 pm

I am hoping they don't for a while. This already has parking underneath. It is pretty big, and probably makes some money with leasing and parking, so I bet they won't tear it down unless they have solid plans.

mplser
US Bank Plaza
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Re: Westminster Church

Postby mplser » January 30th, 2013, 4:44 pm

the entrance to the underground church parking is actually through the underground ramp under that building

John
Capella Tower
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Re: Westminster Church

Postby John » January 30th, 2013, 5:29 pm

mnmike wrote:I am hoping they don't for a while. This already has parking underneath. It is pretty big, and probably makes some money with leasing and parking, so I bet they won't tear it down unless they have solid plans.
Even though I will be sad to see 1221 go at some point, Westminster Church is quite civic minded and I'm sure they will try to contribute a great building for both their church and the community. I have a lot of confidence in them. :)

Aville_37
Union Depot
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Re: Westminster Church

Postby Aville_37 » January 30th, 2013, 9:45 pm

Off topic, can you believe that buildings like the townhouse on the left were once found in Minneapolis:

Image[/quote]

So cool. Looks like many of the buildings in Chicago or the east coast. Shame they were torn down.

Off topic as well - but curious as to what was once on the the site of the current Target Center, as well the surface parking lots surrounding the Metrodome. Looking at old postcards - looks like a lot of residential buildings were destroyed.

min-chi-cbus
Capella Tower
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Re: Westminster Church

Postby min-chi-cbus » January 31st, 2013, 7:50 am

My understanding of the purpose of the surface lot the church was putting up was that it was only a temporary thing until the conditions were right for the full build-out of the parcels they are currently demolishing. In other words, they may not have the finances set up, or the market conditions JUST right, etc. to pull off the project they are thinking of, but for some reason it is adventageous to demolish the current buildings now (vs. later) and offer surface parking instead of having an empty lot fill up with weeds and trash for the foreseeable future. I.E, it's a temporary use.

That being said, it makes you wonder just how long they plan to be putting their "main" project on hold?

mnmike
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Westminster Church

Postby mnmike » January 31st, 2013, 9:14 am

They could make it a lawn, doesn't have to be weed lot...that wouldn't really take any more maintenance than a parking lot, as 5 months of the year it would need no maintenance at all. Probably cost less than snow removal in the winter to maintain.

mnmike
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Westminster Church

Postby mnmike » January 31st, 2013, 9:15 am

So do we know if the glass building is coming down anytime soon?

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Nick
Capella Tower
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Re: Westminster Church

Postby Nick » January 31st, 2013, 9:45 am

mnmike wrote:So do we know if the glass building is coming down anytime soon?
The Wells Fargo sign in front of it came down a few months ago, though a couple weeks ago I did see people moving what looked like office furniture into the building from a truck.

mulad
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Re: Westminster Church

Postby mulad » January 31st, 2013, 10:09 am

mnmike wrote:They could make it a lawn, doesn't have to be weed lot...that wouldn't really take any more maintenance than a parking lot, as 5 months of the year it would need no maintenance at all. Probably cost less than snow removal in the winter to maintain.
And replace the grass with some perennial plants and you wouldn't even need to mow the thing (though it might be necessary to do a burn every couple of years if they're prairie grasses).

mnmike
Wells Fargo Center
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Joined: June 2nd, 2012, 11:01 am

Re: Westminster Church

Postby mnmike » January 31st, 2013, 10:46 am

Well, that wouldn't really make it usable space then.

PS, I think the chuch may be using the building for their offices. That's a big building though

min-chi-cbus
Capella Tower
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Re: Westminster Church

Postby min-chi-cbus » January 31st, 2013, 11:58 am

mulad wrote:
mnmike wrote:They could make it a lawn, doesn't have to be weed lot...that wouldn't really take any more maintenance than a parking lot, as 5 months of the year it would need no maintenance at all. Probably cost less than snow removal in the winter to maintain.
And replace the grass with some perennial plants and you wouldn't even need to mow the thing (though it might be necessary to do a burn every couple of years if they're prairie grasses).
Lawns/gardens don't bring in revenue. I'm not sure if the church would charge but there's always that option. otherwise, I'd prefer a lawn over a parking lot too.

mplser
US Bank Plaza
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Re: Westminster Church

Postby mplser » January 31st, 2013, 12:57 pm

why aren't they going to continue to lease to Wells Fargo? is there some reason?

and also, according to that picture above, this already was a parking lot at some point in history? interesting. I still don't get why they would want a parking lot here considering there is already an underground ramp under most of that space, and who would demolish heated indoor parking to build surface parking?

John
Capella Tower
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Re: Westminster Church

Postby John » January 31st, 2013, 8:51 pm

mplser wrote:why aren't they going to continue to lease to Wells Fargo? is there some reason?

and also, according to that picture above, this already was a parking lot at some point in history? interesting. I still don't get why they would want a parking lot here considering there is already an underground ramp under most of that space, and who would demolish heated indoor parking to build surface parking?
From what you say it doesn't sound logical for 1221 Nicollet to be torn down anytime soon. The church did hire architect James Dayton a while back to create some conceptual ideas for their expansion southward on the block. I'll bet they will retain the underground parking no matter what. The building above the parking could be changed (like the Orchestra Hall lobby to the north) into a different look. I think the building has a steel frame which can be altered. It will be interesting to see what they do with this block.

1200onthemall
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Westminster Church

Postby 1200onthemall » February 1st, 2013, 7:12 am

Westminster is signing short term leases with new tenants, Cantus is moving their Admin office from St Louis Pk into the building. it will be difficult to find other tenants due to limited length of new leases. And as for the comment about the members driving in from "Wayzata" I know many members who neither drive in from Wayzata or want a surface parking lot on the site. They have plans that will be implemented, maybe not soon enough for some on this board.

mplser
US Bank Plaza
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Re: Westminster Church

Postby mplser » February 1st, 2013, 1:02 pm

I know they have plans, but those plans have been in existence for at least 8 years that I know of...

gpete
Union Depot
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Re: Westminster Church

Postby gpete » February 1st, 2013, 3:03 pm

Something we haven't discussed yet: I'm disappointed about the loss of property tax revenue for the City.

We have a very nice parcel of desirable land that will now be owned by a tax-exempt organization.

1200onthemall
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Westminster Church

Postby 1200onthemall » February 2nd, 2013, 3:21 pm

gpete wrote:Something we haven't discussed yet: I'm disappointed about the loss of property tax revenue for the City.

We have a very nice parcel of desirable land that will now be owned by a tax-exempt organization.
Just because the property is owned by a tax exempt org does not mean they pay no property tax, it's much more complicated than that. I am not saying I understand how our property tax system works but i do know that 1221 will still generate property tax for the city-county. Take a look at the Counties property tax website and you can find many tax-exempt orgs that own buildings around town that pay thousands in property taxes, just one that jumps out is the Salvation Army Apt Townes on Loring Park (1421 Yale) pays $115,000 in property taxes.

MNdible
is great.
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Re: Westminster Church

Postby MNdible » February 2nd, 2013, 6:21 pm

I also don't claim to understand the property tax system, but what 1200 says is definitely true.

From a letter of guidance from the Minnesota Department of Revenue:

As with virtually any other entity seeking exemption from property taxes, three key items are that the property must be owned by an institution of purely public charity, used by the institution for charitable purposes, and must be reasonably necessary to the organization as a means to accomplish its charitable purposes. This is, in fact, a key concept for most property types seeking exemptions. Ownership and use are required, and an organization seeking property tax exemption must find the property reasonably necessary to accomplish its exempt purposes.

Further:

Institutions of purely public charity are exempt. In determining whether rental housing property qualifies for exemption under this subdivision, the following are not gifts or donations to the owner of the rental housing:
(1) rent assistance provided by the government to or on behalf of tenants; and
(2) financing assistance or tax credits provided by the government to the owner on condition that specific units or a specific quantity of units be set aside for persons or families with certain income characteristics.

Matt
Metrodome
Posts: 74
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 7:02 pm

Re: Westminster Church

Postby Matt » February 8th, 2013, 7:01 pm

Edit: The image site seems to have taken it down. Here's the building when it was half-destroyed.
IMG_8031.jpg
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Last edited by Matt on February 24th, 2013, 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Matt
Metrodome
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Re: Westminster Church

Postby Matt » February 23rd, 2013, 6:55 pm

IMG_3658.jpg
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