Westminster Church

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
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FISHMANPET
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Re: Westminster Church

Postby FISHMANPET » September 27th, 2012, 3:48 pm

Is there something wrong with the existing building? 30 years doesn't seem very old for what is surely a poured concrete building.

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Re: Westminster Church

Postby John » September 27th, 2012, 4:57 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:Is there something wrong with the existing building? 30 years doesn't seem very old for what is surely a poured concrete building.
The glass building was originally part of the Loring Greenway urban renewal project in the late 1970's. It was a branch office of Norwest Bank. The angled layout from Nicollet Mall was done to preserve the view of Westminster and have the building's glass facade reflect the church. It's actually a well designed building and very respectful of the church's historical significance on that site. It politely maintains good sight lines for viewing the church on Nicollet Mall and I'm sure church officials are aware of that. I'm also sure that issue will be considered for any new development plans on that block. Maybe they will reuse the building with changes to its exterior etc. Who knows?

1200onthemall
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Re: Westminster Church

Postby 1200onthemall » September 27th, 2012, 5:51 pm

trkaiser wrote:I find it strange that they were able to afford to purchase those, and plan to knock them down. I'll withhold judgment until I see the plan, but find this whole thing quite strange.
REALLY! ? These big old churches downtown are filled with "the old guard" of Minneapolis. Nothing strange about that.

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Re: Westminster Church

Postby John » September 27th, 2012, 6:03 pm

Yes, Westminster is about as "blue blood" and old money as Minneapolis can be. They are a very wealthy church.

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trkaiser
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Re: Westminster Church

Postby trkaiser » September 27th, 2012, 9:27 pm

Interesting. I suppose that makes sense, but I'm not at all in the know when it comes to rich vs. struggling churches. I was just down there on my bike. I've always kind of liked those stubby, glass mini towers.

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Re: Westminster Church

Postby Aville_37 » September 27th, 2012, 11:58 pm

Never a huge fan of 1221. It may be sensitive to the church, but I don't think the building or plaza interacted well with Nicollet. Perhaps if the ground floor had some type of cafe w/ outdoor seating. The area is always so dead.

Excited about Dayton being involved. However, I wish we'd stop tearing down buildings and putting up new ones in their place. So many surface parking lots available. However, I suppose the location and price were right. Still, Mpls. will never reach critical mass/density if it doesn't start expanding/building on existing open lots.

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Re: Westminster Church

Postby John » September 28th, 2012, 3:40 am

Although I like the plaza, I agree the block could use some street level activity like a cafe or restaurant. However, I think it remains to be seen if a church would include that in their development plans.

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Re: Westminster Church

Postby Lancestar2 » September 28th, 2012, 4:34 am

um... to the people who are hopeful about the project were talking about the SAME church that is about to level a old apartment building that is falling apart to make way for a BRAND NEW PARKING LOT! :lol: ...of course short term but hmm..

one of the comments on the Star Tribune story suggested extending the greenway through this block all the way to the convention center! Which I think would be a fantastic idea! creating a plaza/greenway in the middle separating the future tower and the church (separation of church and resident :lol: ) I think their may be a lot of potential for some great improvements! Though I have my doubts the church will be able to handle building a successful project on this massive scale but I guess I could be wrong.

Finally to everyone suggesting building a cafe here QUIT IT here is already plenty of places for coffee addicts to get there fix! Why can't we think of new ideas about getting in different types of "retail" For example maybe a small plant store selling plants, flowers, and other nick nacks and gifts. Maybe a "ebay store" A Dvd store/ church store selling relaxation tapes and stones with bibles and other neat stuff! I get that creating a sit down coffee spot adds a lot to the community for interaction but COME ON! we need to have a MIX of retail add a few unique stores between cafe's would be a healthy balance! ..oh and what about a downtown Savers or Goodwill! I think of all places this would be very likely option if they try to keep the site a "non-profit" so they can keep it tax free ;)

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Re: Westminster Church

Postby Aville_37 » September 28th, 2012, 7:16 am

I am all for new retail/businesses on Nicollet. Like the idea of a Goodwill, etc. as long as it's kept up.

Also like the idea of extending the greenway through the block.

I still don't get it! I thought the city put a halt to parking lots for new developments. There is plenty of parking. Don't members of the church get free parking at the convention center ramp?

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Re: Westminster Church

Postby min-chi-cbus » September 28th, 2012, 9:06 am

What's all this talk of a "huge tower"? I ALSO didn't get that gist from the article.....

Does anybody have any idea of what kind of scale this would be? I can see there is less than a half block to use for the what, 300 units they want (affordable, small units). Would that indicate possibly 20 floors (12-14 units per floor)? If it were luxury apartments I could see 300 units easily reaching 30+ floors but these units SHOULD be on the small side.

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Re: Westminster Church

Postby PhilmerPhil » September 28th, 2012, 9:28 am

Did this article even mention tearing 1221 down? Is it possible to reuse that building for residential?

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Nathan
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Re: Westminster Church

Postby Nathan » September 28th, 2012, 10:30 am

There actually aren't that many great places to sit down and get coffee in DT Minneapolis. And nicollet mall/the greenway/loring park residents could totally use a Common Roots type street cafe. My friends and I always complain that if we want coffee downtown it's Starbucks, Caribou, or Dunn Bros, which are fine, but don't create that nice cafe, sit and read the paper element.

Continuing the greenway would be AMAZING.

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Re: Westminster Church

Postby mattaudio » September 28th, 2012, 11:06 am

"The glassy office building along the city's commercial spine will be torn down to make way for the church's ambitious expansion strategy"

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Re: Westminster Church

Postby John » September 28th, 2012, 2:02 pm

fotoapparatic wrote:There actually aren't that many great places to sit down and get coffee in DT Minneapolis. And nicollet mall/the greenway/loring park residents could totally use a Common Roots type street cafe. My friends and I always complain that if we want coffee downtown it's Starbucks, Caribou, or Dunn Bros, which are fine, but don't create that nice cafe, sit and read the paper element.

Continuing the greenway would be AMAZING.
Yes, and I can imagine a nice cafe on 13th street as part of the new church building along the Greenway. Probably a pipe dream though. I find it curious they have hired the edgy architect James Dayton for their new development. He will probably do something very unique and striking which will contrast with the very lovely Gothic church. It will undoubtedly cause controversy! ;)

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Re: Westminster Church

Postby Wedgeguy » September 29th, 2012, 1:50 pm

John wrote:
fotoapparatic wrote:There actually aren't that many great places to sit down and get coffee in DT Minneapolis. And nicollet mall/the greenway/loring park residents could totally use a Common Roots type street cafe. My friends and I always complain that if we want coffee downtown it's Starbucks, Caribou, or Dunn Bros, which are fine, but don't create that nice cafe, sit and read the paper element.

Continuing the greenway would be AMAZING.
Yes, and I can imagine a nice cafe on 13th street as part of the new church building along the Greenway. Probably a pipe dream though. I find it curious they have hired the edgy architect James Dayton for their new development. He will probably do something very unique and striking which will contrast with the very lovely Gothic church. It will undoubtedly cause controversy! ;)
Hopefully Daytons contemporary building with compliment and contrast with it and not fight it as an fugly additions. There are many examples of old and new that contrast and work exceptionally well.

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Re: Westminster Church

Postby John » September 29th, 2012, 3:15 pm

Wedgeguy wrote:Hopefully Daytons contemporary building with compliment and contrast with it and not fight it as an fugly additions. There are many examples of old and new that contrast and work exceptionally well.
Yes, it can be quite dynamic if done right. I'm sure Dayton will take some architectural cues from the church and incorporate them into the new design. And I hope they keep some of the the sight lines ( viewing the church going north on Nicollet Mall). This should be a very very interesting project to watch evolve.

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Re: Westminster Church

Postby 612transplant » September 30th, 2012, 6:57 pm

This plan surfaced (first time I saw it, anyway) in the development thread on skyscrapercity, maybe two years ago now. Poster claimed to be in the know, then it quickly faded.

A lot of posters then thought that the office building currently occupying the spot is pretty nice. I've got to admit, I've warmed to that idea. I'm not sure I'd like to see this go just for the sake of getting something "denser." Nothing against the elderly, but I really don't think they are going to infuse Nicollet Mall with the kind of energy or invest the kind of money in its businesses that we all want...

The building already there interacts with the mall pretty well, I think, and I dig the reflective glass. Some street level retail would be really nice, but other than that, I'm not a huge fan of tearing this one down...

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woofner
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Re: Westminster Church

Postby woofner » September 30th, 2012, 8:57 pm

From the MPR article:
Senior Pastor Tim Hart-Andersen said the 3,000-member church bought the property from Presbyterian Homes, which was planning a high-rise senior housing project at the site, but decided against it.
Also here's the "rendering" that accompanied a couple of the recent articles, so we can all be clear that they're talking about building a parking lot on one of the most important locations in the city.

Image

The article also mentions the idea tossed around here of connecting the Loring Greenway to the Convention Center. Please note there is a handsome apartment building in the way (one of the white blocks at the top of the "rendering"). 13th St works fine for this purpose, and this is probably the one part of downtown that has no need for additional open space as Loring Greenway, Peavey Plaza and the Convention Center lawn are all within a block.

In closing, this proposal is absolute garbage and this congregation should be ashamed of itself.
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612transplant
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Re: Westminster Church

Postby 612transplant » September 30th, 2012, 9:05 pm

Oh goodness.....far worse than I could have ever imagined :(

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Re: Westminster Church

Postby MSPtoMKE » September 30th, 2012, 9:32 pm

Wow, it will be very disappointing if there is a parking lot there. That must be what they used the code word "Access" for...
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