Washington Avenue (reconstruction, restriping, etc.)

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
mattaudio
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Re: Washington Avenue

Postby mattaudio » November 18th, 2013, 9:11 pm


TheUrbanGopher
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Washington Avenue

Postby TheUrbanGopher » December 4th, 2013, 5:38 pm

Anybody know any updates for this? Hennepin County closed the project website earlier today as I was trying to access the Alliant report and proposed layouts.

mattaudio
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Re: Washington Avenue

Postby mattaudio » December 11th, 2013, 11:40 am

Apparently this is the new proposed cross section with cycletrack.
https://twitter.com/mplsbike/status/410 ... 00/photo/1
I'm still underwhelmed.

Aville_37
Union Depot
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Re: Washington Avenue

Postby Aville_37 » December 11th, 2013, 11:58 am

I wanted a planted median or at least some pedestrian lighting. Nothing special here so far.

twincitizen
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Re: Washington Avenue

Postby twincitizen » December 11th, 2013, 12:22 pm

If that continuous right turn lane (aka 3rd westbound thru lane) must remain, it damn well better have bus advantages.

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woofner
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Re: Washington Avenue

Postby woofner » December 11th, 2013, 12:39 pm

The City will require that there be ped-scale lighting on Washington. They probably just didn't include it in the cross-section because their $20k traffic engineering software suite has highway lighting as the only option.
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mattaudio
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Re: Washington Avenue

Postby mattaudio » December 11th, 2013, 2:11 pm

According to the Twitter response from @mplsbike, the right turn lane will have bumpouts on the far sides of intersections to prevent it from being continuous. But that still begs the question why it is needed, or at least those lengths of lanes. Or why we can't use 3rd Street to accommodate circulation headed towards northbound 3rd/Hennepin.

Also, there should be ample room for a median in the 10.5' where the center turn lane is shown. That should be a majority of the corridor. Just as there is already a median where LTLs do not exist. But I have yet to confirm this with the county.

Finally, great to know $20k traffic engineering software is compounding the bias that drives car sewer outcomes.

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woofner
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Re: Washington Avenue

Postby woofner » December 11th, 2013, 2:59 pm

Uh, I have to admit that I'm just snarkily speculating on the software's capability based on my experience in government IT and what I've been able to piece together about traffic signal programming software.
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matt91486
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Washington Avenue

Postby matt91486 » December 17th, 2013, 11:04 pm

Cycle track information sorted:

http://www.startribune.com/local/blogs/236273411.html

I haven't looked at the specifics, but if one of the comments is right and they aren't bothering to extend it across the freeway to seven corners, that's really unfortunate.

mplser
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Re: Washington Avenue

Postby mplser » December 18th, 2013, 1:37 am

I think there is already a bike lane form the gas station to 7 corners, it's just not protected.

nlt
Block E
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Re: Washington Avenue

Postby nlt » December 18th, 2013, 10:43 am

I would speculate that it's because the bridge over 35W isn't as wide as the road to the west. There's barely enough room for the bike lanes and five traffic lanes as it is. I bet that one of the eastbound lanes could be eliminated over the bridge, so you'd have a through lane and the turn lane. Probably won't happen, though.

twincitizen
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Re: Washington Avenue

Postby twincitizen » December 18th, 2013, 11:38 am

Cedar is getting a 4:3 road diet and will only have one lane of traffic in each direction, starting around 3rd St. It wouldn't be much of a stretch to extend that diet around the bend. Dropping EB Washington down to one lane at Bobby & Steve's doesn't seem unreasonable. The dedicated right turn lane to 35W south would stay, as would the left turn lane to 35W north, leaving just the one lane for thru traffic to 7 Corners. I'd assume you'd want to do something to protect EB cyclists from cars turning right onto 35W south.

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woofner
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Re: Washington Avenue

Postby woofner » December 18th, 2013, 11:48 am

The EB lanes approaching the 35W interchange are all 12-13'. If they were slimmed down to 10.5' to match the width in the to-be-reconstructed segment west of 5th Ave, you could fit a bike lane between the right turn lane and the outside through lane. I would put money on the segment between 5th and 35W not being rebuilt before 2025, and maybe not till 2030, so I think it's more likely to see bike lanes here than a cycle track, although maybe someone will think it's worth the money to rebuild the curbs twice.

I'll point out that making one of the two EB through lanes into a left turn lane at 35W completely obviates the already-thin reason for building the 3rd St ramp to 35W. It also means that the one and only NTP capital project that benefited pedestrians, the slight curb extensions at 7 corners, was much weaker than it could have been. Planning!
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mattaudio
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Re: Washington Avenue

Postby mattaudio » December 18th, 2013, 3:13 pm

That eastbound lane should just be a dedicated left turn lane at 2nd St (seven corners towards 19th Ave). Agreed this capacity increase (double left turn lane) would duplicate the stated need for the northbound ramp from 4th St S.

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Nick
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Re: Washington Avenue

Postby Nick » January 29th, 2014, 8:13 pm

Image
P1260120 by UrbanMSP, on Flickr

Aville_37
Union Depot
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Re: Washington Avenue

Postby Aville_37 » January 29th, 2014, 9:50 pm

Doesn't the DID cover most the area Washington Avenue travels through? If not - it should be extended to do so to provide more services - shoveling, greening, etc.

ord2msp
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Re: Washington Avenue

Postby ord2msp » January 30th, 2014, 12:50 am

That's a world class bus shelter there.

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woofner
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Re: Washington Avenue

Postby woofner » January 30th, 2014, 11:37 am

Most liberal city in America! Bild dem streetcarz!
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Aville_37
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Re: Washington Avenue

Postby Aville_37 » January 30th, 2014, 6:58 pm

Why is it that streetcar/light rail stations get better stations/stops that are also better maintained?

John21
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Re: Washington Avenue

Postby John21 » January 30th, 2014, 7:42 pm

Aville_37 wrote:Why is it that streetcar/light rail stations get better stations/stops that are also better maintained?
Rail is sexy!


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