Downtown Minneapolis Retail News

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
mattaudio
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby mattaudio » November 20th, 2014, 1:20 pm

Any chance Macy's could consolidate into the historic building at 7th/Nicollet, and then the superblock on 8th bt Nicollet and LaSalle could get redeveloped? A tower at 8th/Nicollet could work. Granted, I'd miss the Skyroom cafeteria...

David Greene
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby David Greene » November 20th, 2014, 1:31 pm

twincitizen wrote:I doubt they are actually entertaining the thought of leaving downtown entirely. That would be a massive blow.
Would it? I don't think they're leaving either, but what if they did? Macy's is not anything special. That store hasn't been since Dayton's left. Dayton's had some real innovative stuff. These other stores, not so much. What's the impact of Macy's vs. the downtown Target? I see a LOT more people at Target.

I'd much rather see a more unique department store in that space. Would that happen if Macy's left? It certainly wouldn't be guaranteed but I'd be surprised is someone didn't grab it eventually. I'd think you could subdivide it rather easily, at least on the ground floor if you need to. Askov Finlayson would work well on the Mall and would provide a nice sense of closure. :)

Put in an Askov Finlayson, a Duluth Trading and a couple other Galleria-ish fancy-pants places and that area of the Mall could really be something.

David Greene
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby David Greene » November 20th, 2014, 1:33 pm

mattaudio wrote:Is there any historical protection to the Dayton's complex? Should there be? Without a signature department store there, it seems that an old block on Nicollet between 7th and 8th Sts would be possibly the most prime redevelopment location in downtown. While I'd be fine with some redevelopment, I also think this existing block contributes significantly to the history of Minneapolis. Its loss would be much more significant than the loss of Powers and Donaldsons.
Agreed. I would like to see both Dayton's buildings saved. The original one especially has a really nice exterior and there's at least one entrance that still has what looks like its original finishings, though it needs some restoration.

xandrex
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby xandrex » November 20th, 2014, 1:34 pm

David Greene wrote:
twincitizen wrote:Put in an Askov Finlayson, a Duluth Trading and a couple other Galleria-ish fancy-pants places and that area of the Mall could really be something.
Perhaps this is being pedantic, but why would Askov Finlayson want to move to the Mall? They very much fit in with the North Loop culture (presumably you'd have to drag along their other outfits if they did move as well, no?)

David Greene
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby David Greene » November 20th, 2014, 1:36 pm

xandrex wrote:Perhaps this is being pedantic, but why would Askov Finlayson want to move to the Mall? They very much fit in with the North Loop culture (presumably you'd have to drag along their other outfits if they did move as well, no?)
Location, location, location. They'd get a lot more visibility on the Mall. I only learned about them when someone posted something here. I'll bet 99% of people in the city don't even know they exist.

I'm not sure what you mean by "other outfits."

mnmike
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby mnmike » November 20th, 2014, 1:37 pm

David Greene wrote:
twincitizen wrote:I doubt they are actually entertaining the thought of leaving downtown entirely. That would be a massive blow.
Would it? I don't think they're leaving either, but what if they did? Macy's is not anything special. That store hasn't been since Dayton's left. Dayton's had some real innovative stuff. These other stores, not so much. What's the impact of Macy's vs. the downtown Target? I see a LOT more people at Target.

I'd much rather see a more unique department store in that space. Would that happen if Macy's left? It certainly wouldn't be guaranteed but I'd be surprised is someone didn't grab it eventually. I'd think you could subdivide it rather easily, at least on the ground floor if you need to. Askov Finlayson would work well on the Mall and would provide a nice sense of closure. :)

Put in an Askov Finlayson, a Duluth Trading and a couple other Galleria-ish fancy-pants places and that area of the Mall could really be something.
YES. It can't be denied that the last massive department store leaving downtown would be a blow. Of course it would.

Again, why do people think other department stores would be interested? We have had space for other department stores...or any stores...to open up over and over again as they leave...and as a whole department stores continue to decline across the US with few exceptions. Even with the boom of the past couple years downtown, the best we can lure seems to be a big walgreens and an office building into a nice dept store space. But I am sure, as many seem to think, that there are retailers lining up trying to fill these vacant spaces downtown, and the only reason they aren't is because of lazy leasing agents. :lol:

If anything were to happen to Macy's, I'd actually like to see the whole block saved. The original store, obviously, is beautiful on the outside, and the addition (the original portion from the 1930s, and more additions in the 50s), could be restored into a pretty awesome building, with its original art deco themes.

Anyway, again, sorry to start a discussion about Macy's leaving when there is no news saying that...this just feels like the very beginning of them taking steps to leave to me is all. But of course they need to do something with that space! So maybe that is all this is.

mattaudio
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby mattaudio » November 20th, 2014, 1:45 pm

The future of downtown retail is more with the Askov-Finlaysons than with the department store - I like how the Downtown Macy's has a large selection and better service than the malls, but still how often do most people go to a department store to shop? These old department stores used to do more than just clothing. They still have the housewares departments, but I can't imagine they do well compared to online. I'm young, and I remember my family buying a TV and a computer at a Dayton's in the 90s. Retail has changed so much - the best option for downtown is to have a mix of small retailers that are true unique destinations unlike anywhere else in the metro, and baseline retail like Target and Walgreen's for downtown residents.

David Greene
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby David Greene » November 20th, 2014, 1:46 pm

mnmike wrote:
David Greene wrote:
twincitizen wrote:I doubt they are actually entertaining the thought of leaving downtown entirely. That would be a massive blow.
Would it?
YES. It can't be denied that the last massive department store leaving downtown would be a blow. Of course it would.
They wouldn't be the last department store to leave downtown. They wouldn't even be the largest to leave.

Again, what if that space were leased to several high-end retailers?

MNdible
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby MNdible » November 20th, 2014, 1:47 pm

I haven't read the article (because it's locked), but I'm thinking this is just a reboot of their earlier efforts to earn some income off of all of the vacant office space that's on the upper floors of this big complex.

I'm sure that they have more retail space in the building than they need. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually consolidated to four levels total -- the below grade martketplace, and three levels above grade. But I don't see any reason to think that they'd want to move out of the building completely. Downtown Minneapolis is on the upswing, and they're sitting on a great (if too big) piece of property, and they just need to figure out some ways to reconfigure the internal circulation within the building to open up some new revenue streams.

David Greene
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby David Greene » November 20th, 2014, 1:48 pm

mattaudio wrote:The future of downtown retail is more with the Askov-Finlaysons than with the department store - I like how the Downtown Macy's has a large selection and better service than the malls, but still how often do most people go to a department store to shop? These old department stores used to do more than just clothing. They still have the housewares departments, but I can't imagine they do well compared to online. I'm young, and I remember my family buying a TV and a computer at a Dayton's in the 90s. Retail has changed so much - the best option for downtown is to have a mix of small retailers that are true unique destinations unlike anywhere else in the metro, and baseline retail like Target and Walgreen's for downtown residents.
That's exactly right. Dayton's used to sell lots more different kinds of things than Macy's does today. Target took over that portion for them. It turns out that more people need basic housewares and electronics than fancy clothes. Thus, large department stores are struggling. Smaller boutiques can handle the more fickle high end of the market.

mnmike
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby mnmike » November 20th, 2014, 1:51 pm

David Greene wrote: They wouldn't be the last department store to leave downtown. They wouldn't even be the largest to leave.

Again, what if that space were leased to several high-end retailers?

What other department store is left? Target doesn't really count as a traditional department store, and as far as size i'm not even sure there has ever been another department store downtown as big as Macy's (Dayton's). I think Powers and Donaldsons were smaller. So I am not sure what you mean?

Again, What makes you think high end retailers would be interested. Pretty much all large scale high end retail has exitied the downtown market the past several years. We are getting boutique type places yes(which is great) mostly in the north loop, but I don't think any large scale high end retailer would be interested.

Edit...i get your point there...broken up and leased. Could work...I still don't think high end seems to be interested though. Anyway, this is all hypothetical, but I guess this is the thread for that!
Last edited by mnmike on November 20th, 2014, 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mnmike
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby mnmike » November 20th, 2014, 1:55 pm

David Greene wrote: That's exactly right. Dayton's used to sell lots more different kinds of things than Macy's does today. Target took over that portion for them. It turns out that more people need basic housewares and electronics than fancy clothes. Thus, large department stores are struggling. Smaller boutiques can handle the more fickle high end of the market.
Also, Macy's hardly sells "fancy" clothes. They have some, sure, but most of the stuff is mid market at best....if that.
Last edited by mnmike on November 20th, 2014, 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

xandrex
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby xandrex » November 20th, 2014, 1:55 pm

David Greene wrote:
xandrex wrote:Perhaps this is being pedantic, but why would Askov Finlayson want to move to the Mall? They very much fit in with the North Loop culture (presumably you'd have to drag along their other outfits if they did move as well, no?)
Location, location, location. They'd get a lot more visibility on the Mall. I only learned about them when someone posted something here. I'll bet 99% of people in the city don't even know they exist.

I'm not sure what you mean by "other outfits."
Perhaps they'd get most eyeballs, but is that necessarily what they're going for? Surely they could have nabbed CBD space when they first opened (they're not exactly cash strapped). And they're kind of doubling down on their current location. Nicollet Mall is nice (I do love it), but it's not cool. The North Loop is.

By "other outfits," I meant the Bachelor Farmer and Marvel Bar. A bunch of reviews online (plus anecdotes in real life) seem to indicate that people like to wander into Askov Finlayson while they're waiting to get seated. If they still want that mingling, they're going to need to need to move everything.

mullen
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby mullen » November 20th, 2014, 2:17 pm

that dt target is too big. it feels like a typical suburban store in spite of its two levels. i think at some point it will be converted to their city, urban concept.

xandrex
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby xandrex » November 20th, 2014, 2:22 pm

mullen wrote:that dt target is too big. it feels like a typical suburban store in spite of its two levels. i think at some point it will be converted to their city, urban concept.
In the future they might shrink it, but as someone who worked there for a time, I think the view that it's "too big" comes from people who visit during working hours or shortly thereafter. During that time, yeah, it's too big: Grocery aisles are packed, but a lot of the clothing sections and electronics and such aren't so much. But there are a huge number of people who do their everyday shopping there on evenings and weekends. I sold a lot of clothes, video games, televisions, children's toys, etc. But a lot of that would be invisible to the average office worker.

HiawathaGuy
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby HiawathaGuy » November 20th, 2014, 2:42 pm

MNdible wrote:I haven't read the article (because it's locked), but I'm thinking this is just a reboot of their earlier efforts to earn some income off of all of the vacant office space that's on the upper floors of this big complex.

I'm sure that they have more retail space in the building than they need. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually consolidated to four levels total -- the below grade martketplace, and three levels above grade. But I don't see any reason to think that they'd want to move out of the building completely. Downtown Minneapolis is on the upswing, and they're sitting on a great (if too big) piece of property, and they just need to figure out some ways to reconfigure the internal circulation within the building to open up some new revenue streams.
The article simply talks about them wanting to lease or sell the upper floors - which they've talked about for years. Their retail space is not discussed - except for suggesting that someone may buy the whole building and they'd lease the space back. Macy's has plenty of locations that probably don't pay for themselves - this may be one of them. But the high visibility of this store makes it more likely to stay open, even if under performing.

The company I work for (large retail) has several locations like this. Either the rents in very high profile locations are so high that it makes the store unable to be profitable, or it's just not desirable enough to lure enough people in to shop. But we won't close them. I suspect Macy's has many other worse-off stores than our downtown store!
mullen wrote:that dt target is too big. it feels like a typical suburban store in spite of its two levels. i think at some point it will be converted to their city, urban concept.
I was one of the opening managers for the DT Target. I assure you that the store performs very well and is appropriately sized. I doubt they will downsize it, certainly not anytime soon.

mnmike
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby mnmike » November 20th, 2014, 2:59 pm

Yeah, I think the size of the downtown Target is very appropriate...it's about the size of a normal store I believe (145k sq feetish?). I've even thought they could use more space at times...for a full grocery.

TroyGBiv
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby TroyGBiv » November 20th, 2014, 4:55 pm

Target isn't going to do anything to their downtown store. With headquarters on the next block this store is the lab for buyers, MPD, training, ops, vendors etc... When I worked at corporate we would have to drive way out into the suburbs to meet with vendors or buyers and it would end up wasting half a day. This store has strong sales in every dept and there is no reason to limit potential sales. If the format didn't work that would be different... The real opportunities for retail in the downtown is for the street facades to open up to provide a more visual and more active environment in coordination with the mall renovation... the interior shopping spaces like City Center and Gaviidae have been fading and may end up not being the preferred shopping format anymore. Back as recently as the early 1980's block after block of department stores and other stores ran block after block... the side streets had a ton of small shops - the decades since have had retail ups and downs.... There are a lot of factors downtown that are changing... I hope that the downtown can coordinate a more exciting shopping environment. Michigan Avenue may be a good goal... large scale coordination seems like the key to any improvements.

IllogicalJake
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby IllogicalJake » November 20th, 2014, 5:37 pm

mullen wrote:that dt target is too big. it feels like a typical suburban store in spite of its two levels. i think at some point it will be converted to their city, urban concept.
I really can't understand how anyone can feel it's too big... Do you feel it sells too many things, or do you think it takes up too much space? It seems odd to just say "it's too big," especially with the influx of residential to the downtown area.

I shop there every couple of days and have always wished it were bigger. I honestly thought it was three stories before I moved here, heh.
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John
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Re: Downtown Retail News

Postby John » November 20th, 2014, 6:14 pm

IllogicalJake wrote:
mullen wrote:that dt target is too big. it feels like a typical suburban store in spite of its two levels. i think at some point it will be converted to their city, urban concept.
I really can't understand how anyone can feel it's too big... Do you feel it sells too many things, or do you think it takes up too much space? It seems odd to just say "it's too big," especially with the influx of residential to the downtown area.

I shop there every couple of days and have always wished it were bigger. I honestly thought it was three stories before I moved here, heh.
I shop there every couple days as well, as do most of my neighbors. It's not too big if you live downtown and actually use it. It's part grocery store, hardware store, and drug store, etc for many downtown residents. It's very successful (in sales per square foot) for a Target store from what I've heard.


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