Minneapolis Density and Population Growth (500k, etc)

Parks, Minneapolis Public Schools, Density, Zoning, etc.
kirby96
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Re: Minneapolis Density and Population Growth (500k, etc)

Postby kirby96 » April 16th, 2018, 8:36 am

SurlyLHT wrote:
April 16th, 2018, 6:13 am
After this blizzard I want to give a shout out to density and how it makes life possible during storms like this. My wife and I live just south of Downtown and were able to walk to the Downtown library and take the Green Line to check out the Fresh Thyme at the U of M. The trains were running off schedule, but still pretty frequent (I suspect cars kept getting stuck on the tracks) and the skyways were toasty warm and well-trafficked, but as usually had lost souls looking for US Bank Stadium.

Many decry density and their not being parking or the cost of transit projects, but during a blizzard the Urban core is way more resilient than the suburbs I grew up in.
Very true.

We had a busy family weekend and perhaps I'm a little more exhausted today due to dealing with the weather, but we hosted a dinner Friday, walked to Blackbird for brunch Saturday, had a kid attend a birthday party at Vertical Endeavours and Tilt, and then went to another birthday dinner at IE on Sunday. I don't think anyone involved seriously considered not doing any of these things due to the weather, and the venues were remarkably full. We were even able to <drive> to a couple of the places because the main streets were OK, and they are so close together.

xandrex
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Re: Minneapolis Density and Population Growth (500k, etc)

Postby xandrex » April 16th, 2018, 9:42 am

Yep. Density was a definite amenity for this storm. I briefly drove Saturday morning when streets were still passable, but I otherwise left my car alone. I went downtown for dinner and a show, attempted (in vain) to get ice cream during the blizzard, went to the liquor store, grocery shopping, the gym, visiting friends, etc. All with a combination of transit (shout out to the bus drivers that largely kept things on time) and hoofing it.

I heard of some folks in less dense neighborhoods essentially stuck in their homes because they couldn’t get their car out and it was too far to walk anywhere. That would definitely have made this storm so much worse.

amiller92
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Re: Minneapolis Density and Population Growth (500k, etc)

Postby amiller92 » April 16th, 2018, 10:14 am

Meanwhile, in South Richfield, we canceled our Saturday night plans downtown due to the blizzard. We could have trudged four blocks to the bus and probably made it there and back okay, but that would have still required Grandma to make it to our place to watch the kid and likely have to stay the night but even then, but I very much do not like encouraging anyone to drive in a snowstorm. Too bad Grandma doesn't live within walking distance or there's not good transit between her place in Richfield and our in North Richfield.

In other words, yes, density is good.

Although I did walk to the grocery store yesterday, which worked fine aside from having to walk on the street on Cedar because it hadn't even touched its sidewalks.

MNdible
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Re: Minneapolis Density and Population Growth (500k, etc)

Postby MNdible » April 16th, 2018, 10:23 am

xandrex wrote:
April 16th, 2018, 9:42 am
I heard of some folks in less dense neighborhoods essentially stuck in their homes because they couldn’t get their car out and it was too far to walk anywhere. That would definitely have made this storm so much worse.
OH, THE HORROR OF BEING STUCK IN MY COZY TOASTY HOUSE WHILE A GOD DAMNED BLIZZARD WAS HOWLING OUTSIDE.

jebr
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Re: Minneapolis Density and Population Growth (500k, etc)

Postby jebr » April 16th, 2018, 10:43 am

MNdible wrote:
April 16th, 2018, 10:23 am
xandrex wrote:
April 16th, 2018, 9:42 am
I heard of some folks in less dense neighborhoods essentially stuck in their homes because they couldn’t get their car out and it was too far to walk anywhere. That would definitely have made this storm so much worse.
OH, THE HORROR OF BEING STUCK IN MY COZY TOASTY HOUSE WHILE A GOD DAMNED BLIZZARD WAS HOWLING OUTSIDE.
Hopefully you're not a nurse, ER doctor, EMT, firefighter, police officer, or some other essential service that needs to get out of the house to go to work and ensure essential services keep running.

Or that you're not a person who works in a retail/hospitality/restaurant environment where the employer isn't forgiving and if you don't make it into work despite the blizzard they'll fire you. (Hopefully this isn't common, but I'd be surprised if every single employer was forgiving even in this weather.)

Certainly, there's a lot of places that can shut down during the blizzard. There's also a lot of places that can't (or won't) and having density and transit infrastructure that allows those workers to get to their jobs safely and reliably is a huge boon to the city.

tmart
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Re: Minneapolis Density and Population Growth (500k, etc)

Postby tmart » April 16th, 2018, 11:01 am

There's nothing wrong with holing up for a day in a snowstorm. It can make for a pleasant, cozy day.

The difference is that in a walkable, transit-rich, mixed-use area, you choose to stay in, while in an auto-oriented development, the choice has been made for you.

kirby96
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Re: Minneapolis Density and Population Growth (500k, etc)

Postby kirby96 » April 16th, 2018, 11:02 am

MNdible wrote:
April 16th, 2018, 10:23 am
OH, THE HORROR OF BEING STUCK IN MY COZY TOASTY HOUSE WHILE A GOD DAMNED BLIZZARD WAS HOWLING OUTSIDE.
Wow, touchy. Perhaps a bit stir crazy after being cooped up all weekend?

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Minneapolis Density and Population Growth (500k, etc)

Postby VacantLuxuries » April 16th, 2018, 11:07 am

Hopefully you're not a nurse, ER doctor, EMT, firefighter, police officer, or some other essential service that needs to get out of the house to go to work and ensure essential services keep running.
Another reason why forbidding communities from ensuring their emergency services hire from within the community is an issue.

SurlyLHT
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Re: Minneapolis Density and Population Growth (500k, etc)

Postby SurlyLHT » April 16th, 2018, 11:18 am

VacantLuxuries wrote:
April 16th, 2018, 11:07 am
Hopefully you're not a nurse, ER doctor, EMT, firefighter, police officer, or some other essential service that needs to get out of the house to go to work and ensure essential services keep running.
Another reason why forbidding communities from ensuring their emergency services hire from within the community is an issue.
Not as essential but, one reason Minneapolis Public Schools canceled was that they were afraid their bus drivers wouldn't be able to commute in.

David Greene
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Re: Minneapolis Density and Population Growth (500k, etc)

Postby David Greene » April 16th, 2018, 11:27 am

Oh geez, come on people. "Can I get around in a top-15 historic metro blizzard in the entire history of the state of Minnesota?" is not a question people care about when deciding between city and suburb.

It's the sort of thing that makes people hate urbanists.

LakeCharles
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Re: Minneapolis Density and Population Growth (500k, etc)

Postby LakeCharles » April 16th, 2018, 11:29 am

David Greene wrote:
April 16th, 2018, 11:27 am
Oh geez, come on people. "Can I get around in a top-15 historic metro blizzard in the entire history of the state of Minnesota?" is not a question people care about when deciding between city and suburb.

It's the sort of thing that makes people hate urbanists.
People hate urbanists because we go out during blizzards? It seems people are just hunting for reasons to hate urbanists.

xandrex
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Re: Minneapolis Density and Population Growth (500k, etc)

Postby xandrex » April 16th, 2018, 11:32 am

MNdible wrote:
April 16th, 2018, 10:23 am
xandrex wrote:
April 16th, 2018, 9:42 am
I heard of some folks in less dense neighborhoods essentially stuck in their homes because they couldn’t get their car out and it was too far to walk anywhere. That would definitely have made this storm so much worse.
OH, THE HORROR OF BEING STUCK IN MY COZY TOASTY HOUSE WHILE A GOD DAMNED BLIZZARD WAS HOWLING OUTSIDE.
Hey, to each their own. I would have gone crazy staying in for 72 hours, but you do you. :mrgreen:

kirby96
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Re: Minneapolis Density and Population Growth (500k, etc)

Postby kirby96 » April 16th, 2018, 12:55 pm

David Greene wrote:
April 16th, 2018, 11:27 am
Oh geez, come on people. "Can I get around in a top-15 historic metro blizzard in the entire history of the state of Minnesota?" is not a question people care about when deciding between city and suburb.
You are conveniently framing that way too narrowly.

Lower reliance on the automobile is obviously a key attraction of urban living. That proves beneficial for many reasons and in many circumstances, one of which is most definitely when the weather makes driving any significant distance difficult and/or dangerous.

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Minneapolis Density and Population Growth (500k, etc)

Postby VacantLuxuries » April 16th, 2018, 1:00 pm

It's the sort of thing that makes people hate urbanists.
I thought that was my ravenous hunger for destroying parking.

Didier
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Re: Minneapolis Density and Population Growth (500k, etc)

Postby Didier » April 16th, 2018, 1:07 pm

I was bored on Sunday so got in my car and drove halfway across the city to Milkjam. Then I drove home!

tmart
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Re: Minneapolis Density and Population Growth (500k, etc)

Postby tmart » April 16th, 2018, 3:06 pm

Obviously the blizzard is an extreme case, but there are at least a dozen times a year when I'm uneasy about taking a car out on the road. After living in a walkable hood and commuting by bus, I find myself seriously wondering how and why I used to put up with slogging through so much needless, dangerous winter driving.

nstudenski
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Re: Minneapolis Density and Population Growth (500k, etc)

Postby nstudenski » April 16th, 2018, 3:07 pm

David Greene wrote:
April 16th, 2018, 11:27 am
Oh geez, come on people. "Can I get around in a top-15 historic metro blizzard in the entire history of the state of Minnesota?" is not a question people care about when deciding between city and suburb.
I would prefer to be less car-reliant than I am now because it sucks to drive in a snowstorm, even if it doesn't set records.
"Can I get around when the roads are snowy or icy?"
is very much a question that guides decisions about where I want to live and work.

https://www.dnr.state.mn.us/climate/twi ... ounts.html

My dream is to be able to take the bus to work on the 26-50 snowy days we get in a usual year. (and other days too)

David Greene
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Re: Minneapolis Density and Population Growth (500k, etc)

Postby David Greene » April 16th, 2018, 6:11 pm

I understand the benefits of living in the city. That's why I live there. What people hate is when other people are smug about their own perceived superiority based on some situation that is insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

The implicit message here is that people are somehow poor decision-makers/to be pitied/whatever for living in the suburbs. That's not a great way to change minds and hearts.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


David Greene
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Re: RE: Re: Minneapolis Density and Population Growth (500k, etc)

Postby David Greene » April 16th, 2018, 6:12 pm

VacantLuxuries wrote:
It's the sort of thing that makes people hate urbanists.
I thought that was my ravenous hunger for destroying parking.
Well, that too. :)

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


mamundsen
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Re: Minneapolis Density and Population Growth (500k, etc)

Postby mamundsen » April 16th, 2018, 7:31 pm

How soon will the gigantic snow plies be cleared from downtown? The Marq2 buses were limited to one lane due to snow. It took me a full hour to get out of downtown on the bus.


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