Harriet's Inn - 4000 Lyndale Avenue South

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twincitizen
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Harriet's Inn - 4000 Lyndale Avenue South

Postby twincitizen » April 24th, 2013, 10:24 am

http://www.journalmpls.com/news/biz-buz ... to-lyndale

Crooked Pint (owned by the same guy who owns Green Mill) is looking to open a 2nd location. The original is at Washington & 5th in the Mill District/DTE.

This would replace a long-vacant SA gas station on the SW corner of Lyndale & 40th. There is also an SA gas station on the SE corner of the same intersection, but I think that one is still in business. So many gas stations on Lyndale, ranging from open to vacant to re-used as something else, it's hard to keep track.

Unfortunately, it sounds like they are wanting to re-use the super set back gas station building and have a 13-space parking lot that would front the street corner. The right thing to do would be to demolish and start over, but it's still a huge plus that this site is going to be re-used. I expect that these questions will be raised by the neighborhood and Planning Commission. A structure that has been vacant for this long (~7 years) has basically no rights whatsoever to re-use if it doesn't meet zoning ordinances. The City could deny them on those grounds and hope something better comes along.

They are seeking strong beer & wine licenses only, but no hard liquor. I can already smell the neighborhood opposition in the air and hear chants of "think of the children!" "Too close to the park/lake!"

The proposal will go to a meeting of the East Harriet neighborhood association on April 29.

P.S. I almost posted this under Uptown...I had to slap my wrist and tell myself NO!

Tcmetro
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Re: 4000 Lyndale - Crooked Pint Ale House

Postby Tcmetro » April 24th, 2013, 11:45 am

It was so weird when both SA's were open on that intersection. Who came up with that idea?

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woofner
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Re: 4000 Lyndale - Crooked Pint Ale House

Postby woofner » April 24th, 2013, 12:57 pm

Will they require any variances? The only possibility I see is the corner side yard lot, which looks to be less than the required 8'. But a corner side yard variance from 8 to 4 feet is the sort of variance that is routinely granted and that most of us typically support. I don't think there is a maximum front yard requirement in C1 districts. So yes, the zoning code would allow that piece of shit building to be built today.

It will be interesting to see if there is any neighborhood opposition. They've been working hard to get that space used for a while, but this isn't exactly a boutique yoga spa. It would be approved in a snap if it were across the street in Kingfield, but it might get dicey in East Harriet.
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twincitizen
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Re: 4000 Lyndale - Crooked Pint Ale House

Postby twincitizen » April 24th, 2013, 3:07 pm

redisciple wrote:Will they require any variances? The only possibility I see is the corner side yard lot, which looks to be less than the required 8'. But a corner side yard variance from 8 to 4 feet is the sort of variance that is routinely granted and that most of us typically support. I don't think there is a maximum front yard requirement in C1 districts. So yes, the zoning code would allow that piece of shit building to be built today.

That's a 75 foot front setback. I'd be shocked (only mildy) if that were allowed in any zoning district.
Last edited by twincitizen on April 24th, 2013, 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

uptowncarag

Re: 4000 Lyndale - Crooked Pint Ale House

Postby uptowncarag » April 24th, 2013, 3:24 pm

I hope they are going to build new and not just remodel the building that is there.

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Re: 4000 Lyndale - Crooked Pint Ale House

Postby woofner » April 24th, 2013, 4:53 pm

Oh yeah I guess I missed the variance for a parking lot in a front yard. Can't think of any max setback in commercial districts, but it's not like I have the zoning code memorized or anything (yet).
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Re: 4000 Lyndale - Crooked Pint Ale House

Postby Andrew_F » April 29th, 2013, 7:19 pm

Interesting story there with the two SAs.The original plan was to keep the smaller one (on the SE corner) open while they tore down the medium one (on the SW corner) to build a much larger station on the SW corner and tear the smaller one down and sell the land. They got as far as buying the house to the south of the gas station, tearing it down, and removing the old tanks and pumps when the project stalled for some reason. By the time they were ready to resume, the tanks had been removed long enough that using the site as a service station was no longer a "continued use" and they needed approval from everyone living within so many feet of the new station. Naturally, they didn't get it, so SA was stuck with the tiny overcrowded station, a vacant convenience store, and an empty lot.

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Re: 4000 Lyndale - Crooked Pint Ale House

Postby Uptown46 » April 29th, 2013, 9:12 pm

I grew up right near this corner, so I've watched this saga over the years. The SW corner was a 7-11. SA acquired all the 7-11s in the Twin Cities at some point and converted them to SA's. This corner became a strange one with both SA's operating for many years. The reason the SA consolidation project never moved forward was that the SA owner needed to rezone the property where the house had been located from residential to commercial and needed approval by a majority of the nearby property owners. There was a huge campaign in the neighborhood to stop the rezoning. Lots of people for blocks and blocks near the intersection had "Don't Expand SA" yard signs. The rezoning failed and they closed the SA on this corner.

There was an effort in the neighborhood to have the house south of the SW corner SA moved rather than torn down. I think they were ultimately successful, but I don't remember that as well.

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Re: 4000 Lyndale - Crooked Pint Ale House

Postby mullen » April 30th, 2013, 8:39 am

happy to see something finally happening at that site.

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Re: 4000 Lyndale - Crooked Pint Ale House

Postby twincitizen » April 30th, 2013, 8:44 am

I wonder how the meeting with East Harriet went last night. I'll bet not a single person raised the question about reusing the existing 75'-setback building vs. creating something new and urban. Tons of consternation over alcohol, noise, etc I'm sure.

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Re: 4000 Lyndale - Crooked Pint Ale House

Postby gpete » April 30th, 2013, 9:03 am

On Twitter, some folks said about 90 people attended the community meeting last night. Concerns were raised regarding parking (duh), noise, hours of operation, etc.

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Re: 4000 Lyndale - Crooked Pint Ale House

Postby Andrew_F » April 30th, 2013, 12:37 pm

Uptown46 wrote:I grew up right near this corner, so I've watched this saga over the years. The SW corner was a 7-11. SA acquired all the 7-11s in the Twin Cities at some point and converted them to SA's. This corner became a strange one with both SA's operating for many years. The reason the SA consolidation project never moved forward was that the SA owner needed to rezone the property where the house had been located from residential to commercial and needed approval by a majority of the nearby property owners. There was a huge campaign in the neighborhood to stop the rezoning. Lots of people for blocks and blocks near the intersection had "Don't Expand SA" yard signs. The rezoning failed and they closed the SA on this corner.

There was an effort in the neighborhood to have the house south of the SW corner SA moved rather than torn down. I think they were ultimately successful, but I don't remember that as well.
Thanks for the clarification. It all happened prior to my family moving into the neighborhood from SE Mpls so I had only heard secondhand stories.

Regarding the neighborhood meeting, I would be surprised if there were too much opposition... I remember at the meeting when Java Jack's was seeking a liquor license in 2009 or 2010 the biggest concern was garbage collection. But then again, Java Jack's was already an established neighborhood amenity at the time.

uptowncarag

Re: 4000 Lyndale - Crooked Pint Ale House

Postby uptowncarag » April 30th, 2013, 3:26 pm

People would rather have that boarded up eyesore? Part of living in the city is having noise. I don't think that would be a problem here.

twincitizen
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Re: 4000 Lyndale - Crooked Pint Ale House

Postby twincitizen » April 30th, 2013, 6:51 pm

Also, part of living in the City is not driving everywhere. It's so disappointing that such a large percentage of older, long-term City dwellers don't see things that way. Will people drive to this bar? Sure. But less of them will if it's already full of neighborhood folks. That far south, I'd estimate that on-street parking options are pretty wide open.

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Re: 4000 Lyndale - Crooked Pint Ale House

Postby mullen » May 1st, 2013, 6:08 am

i don't see how this is any different than pizza luce further north on Lyndale. that's in a converted former convenience store also, I believe.

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Re: 4000 Lyndale - Crooked Pint Ale House

Postby seanrichardryan » May 9th, 2013, 4:34 pm

Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

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Nick
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Re: 4000 Lyndale - Crooked Pint Ale House

Postby Nick » May 9th, 2013, 4:46 pm

Looks like it belongs at the West End.

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Re: 4000 Lyndale - Crooked Pint Ale House

Postby mister.shoes » May 9th, 2013, 6:12 pm

Does this sound like they're going to build close to the streets?
The task force recommended a restaurant at the site, with a building facade that shapes the corner (rather than a parking lot, for example). Crooked Pint would meet those recommendations, although it wouldn't satisfy every item on the task force's wish list.
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Re: 4000 Lyndale - Crooked Pint Ale House

Postby MNdible » May 9th, 2013, 6:35 pm

I saw that as well, but I think it must be a mistake. Based on the expected October opening, I don't see how they could demolish the old building and build a new one in that time period.

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Nathan
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Re: 4000 Lyndale - Crooked Pint Ale House

Postby Nathan » May 10th, 2013, 12:03 am

Couldn't they be demolish the first building as they are already working on the new building? It doesn't take that long to build a single story building with no basement.


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