Minneapolis Park and Recreation Board

[mattaudio]

Yes, the MPRB line item on our property tax statements.

[MNdible]

All open spaces should be converted to softball fields that can be profitably rented to suburban bar leagues.

[amiller92]

Not that I necessarily endorse that option (I may not be hugely opposed, but I want to maintain green space a block from my house).

There's a lot of other green spaces in the area, though. Seems like it could use more entertainment/retail/people to support those businesses more than it needs to maintain all that contiguous green space.

Although that's easy for me to say as some of the remaining green space will be at the end of my future block in the area.

[RailBaronYarr]

Maybe we should separate the type of park activities that typically charge users (renting boats, golfing, tubing, etc) and have abnormally high or specific costs (can't easily be shared, spend a good chunk of the time sitting idle, whatever) from typical park maintenance or operations like benches and mowers and tree trimmers and those covered mini plows. There's a lot of gray area in the middle. I'd guess the equipment needed to maintain golf courses is a bit more specific than ice rink maintenance, but they're closer than we make them out to be. Parks don't make money themselves. Though I suspect the contract with the boat rental company brings in more than it costs to serve those users.

As to the flooding. Sure, but is the exact footprint of the golf course exactly as much as we need for flood management? No more? No less? No mitigation options with the lake given the shore will be turned back to nature in most spots? I don't think this particular area of Minneapolis is hurting for green space given Nokomis, Hiawatha, the creek park shed, and even the falls area not too far away.

[MNdible]

Look, I've probably played a grand total of ten games of golf in my entire life, and the last one was probably 15 years ago. So I'm not grinding my axe here. And I don't know what the right answer is for this location. But let me toss out a few thoughts.

1. The MPRB is not going to give up any land for redevelopment. Full Stop. This will not happen. They don't do this.
2. Even if it could happen, see my previous point about flooding.
3. We're holding golf to a higher standard, for reasons I don't entirely understand.
4. Golf used to subsidize a lot of other park activities, as recently as a few years ago.
5. Obviously the economics of golf have changed a lot. On the other hand, a lot of other courses have closed, so this may make the remaining courses more profitable.
6. Hiawatha probably could play a niche role as a nice 9 hole course and open up some land for other uses.

[seanrichardryan]

The park board separates items that are revenue generating into the Enterprise Fund.

There's a nice 5 year projection for that fund here (begins page 28).
https://www.minneapolisparks.org/_asset ... ctions.pdf

[David Greene]

You could easily develop 10-25% of it without flood risk. Not that I necessarily endorse that option (I may not be hugely opposed, but I want to maintain green space a block from my house).

I'm not attacking you here because I understand your desire, but really, isn't this the same kind of argument people make when other people here shout, "NIMBY!"

I'm honestly curious about how we tell the difference.

[mattaudio]

There's a petition circulating around in favor of the 9-hole alternative. It was started by Hiawatha Skiklubb but seems to be getting traction with the neighborhoods in general. https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/the ... lf-course/

We, the members of the Hiawatha Skiklubb, and the Nordic community in South Minneapolis, want to see the Hiawatha Golf Course promoted as a Nordic destination. It’s a neighborhood resource that too often goes unused in the winter for lack of attention and funds. As the Park Board in the next few weeks considers a revisioning of Hiawatha, we think this is the ideal time to consider Hiawatha's Nordic future as well.

First, the easy stuff. The Park Board and Hiawatha Golf Course staff have been fantastic partners with the Skiklubb over the past three years as we develop Nordic skiing at Hiawatha. Several improvements have been made after the Skiklubb asked for them, and we would like to continue along that trajectory as we improve the facilities for Nordic skiing. We now have consistent trail grooming, equipment rental, ski pass sales in the clubhouse and winter clubhouse hours. Here’s a list of things we would love to see next: simple ski storage racks placed outside; signage on multi-track trails to segment winter users onto distinct paths for skiing and walking to preserve the quality of the ski trails and improve safety for all users; open gates at the corners of the golf course to encourage neighbors to come into the Nordic ski area during the winter, with signs posted to remind dog owners that this is not an off-leash dog area, and that dog walking should be done off of the ski trails. And our big ask: please add a pavilion on the south side of the parking lot to function as a place for Nordic gatherings, a place to sit outside with a fire, host ski events and serve as a focus for the start and finish of ski races and events at Hiawatha.

Second, the clubhouse. The clubhouse at Hiawatha should serve healthier, more substantial food. A new menu and longer hours could turn it into a neighborhood spot that draws people out of their homes in the middle of winter. This has been done with great success at Sea Salt, Tin Fish, Sand Castle, etc. It’s time for the Hiawatha clubhouse to become a destination in its own right and a place where skiiers could mingle with neighbors in the winter over a good meal.

Third, we’d like to see artificial snowmaking put into the park’s master plan. Hiawatha could be an excellent winter recreation area due to its location in South Minneapolis, and consistent snowpack would enhance winter programs, protect greens, and ensure a worthwhile investment in the park. It’s a good investment that will draw skiiers and more revenue. We realize that snowmaking is expensive and will take time to implement. Including snowmaking in the master plan will make sure we avoid the situation where improvements completed in the short term need to be un-done, re-worked or demolished in the future in order to make way for snowmaking.

Finally, when we consider the long-term future of Hiawatha, we think a premiere 9-hole course built to withstand flooding would serve the community best. If the Park Board elects to go with a 9-hole course, this is how we think the Board could reimagine Hiawatha for a more inclusive park.

1. A year-round location for silent sports like mountain biking, trail running and Nordic skiing. We picture Hiawatha as a multi-purpose gathering space with potential for a host of activities currently not served by Hiawatha.

2. A park with a larger commitment to nature, with a simple (not paved) walking trail around the lake that offers bird-watchers and others an opportunity to view the many bird species that live in the area or move through it on migrations. Removing some of the land from the golf course system would mean less herbicides and pesticides used in the area, including 2,4-D, a common weedkiller used in Hiawatha (and many other golf courses) that a World Health Organization research arm recently designated as “possibly” carcinogenic to humans.

3. Retention of the youth golfing programs that have worked so well in the past. Perhaps a separate, short 3-hole course for kids could be carved out of some of the land freed up by reducing the course from 18 holes to 9.

[Anondson]

Concept B received final approval for Meadowbrook. Open date set for 2017.

https://www.minneapolisparks.org/news/2 ... _golf_club

I'm disappointed they kept 18 holes of golf. But consolation for me is the future creekside/lakeside trail.

The process never had an option to divest it, selling/transferring it to Three Rivers. It's future as golf was preordained.

[mullen]

the city should get out of the business of owning and operating assets in suburban communities. no reason for mpls parks to be involved with this golf course anymore.

[Anondson]

One way to look at it, Minneapolis Parks will take on debt to protect the property values of Interlachan Park and Rolling Green in the suburbs.

Another, the city isn't sacrificing any of its taxable land for the green space to support a once-popular hobby.

[mattaudio]

I wasn't able to attend the Hiawatha GC meeting tonight as I had another meeting with city/county engineers for another project. But the reports I'm hearing is that MPRB has received new data about groundwater pumping over the last couple days regarding the Hiawatha site, and it is dramatic. Based on what I'm hearing, I would expect the 18 hole options (2 or the 3) to be eliminated due to these revelations, and I think there might even have to be a discussion on the future of (any) golf on the site.

[mattaudio]

Here's an update from our wonderful Commissioner Steffanie Musich:

I wanted to take a moment to thank everyone that attended this evening's meeting about Hiawatha Golf Course for their time and thoughtful comments and questions. I also wanted to share my comments from the opening of this evening's meeting for those of you that could not attend:
Extensive flooding at Hiawatha resulted in this reexamination of the course, and my prepared remarks for this evening up until 24 hours ago were primarily about the importance of inter-governmental cooperation with our partners at the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District and the City of Minneapolis in helping the park board identify workable concepts for this site, as their technical and geotechnical engineering experience is essential in a project of this complexity. The cooperation is still there, but the underlying assumptions about this project have changed drastically in the past few days with the receipt of preliminary engineering data about groundwater conditions.
The volume of groundwater being pumped from this site to enable a game to be played is shocking and will take time to process and understand. No doubt like many of you, I am still struggling to understand what this means for the course and this project as a whole.
Our initial timeline indicated the rebuilding of this course to include greater resilience to flood damage, increased ecological function of Minnehaha Creek and enhanced storm water control would be possible to have underway as soon as 2016 with the course reopening the following year. Until further analysis is done a revised timeline is not available. The future park and rec uses of this site are unknown, but I can assure you, this land will remain parkland even if golf is no longer a viable use of this space.
While the park planning process from the public view can seem unnecessarily cumbersome and long, ensuring that our planning process includes due diligence to validate assumptions uncovers issues and stumbling blocks early, allowing for a successful project in the long run for generations of Minneapolitans to come.
As more information is available
to share with the public, I will be sure to do so.
This evening's presentation will be available on the project page in the coming days

[Anondson]

That throws things into the air.

[Anondson]

Steve Brandt wrote about it.

http://m.startribune.com/local/minneapo ... 01391.html

How much annual pumping? 270+ million gallons annually, far more than the 38+ million gallons permitted. Three times more water being pumped than the board sued Lake/Knox over. Huh.

[amiller92]

this land will remain parkland even if golf is no longer a viable use of this space

I don't like this bit. I mean, this news makes it seem like other uses may not be possible, and that's fine. But if it's not going to all be a golf course, why must we assume that every inch of it remain park when it's immediately adjacent to a lot of other park?

[fehler]

Everyone said it was daft to build a golf course on a swamp, but they built in all the same, just to show them.

[kiliff75]

this land will remain parkland even if golf is no longer a viable use of this space

I don't like this bit. I mean, this news makes it seem like other uses may not be possible, and that's fine. But if it's not going to all be a golf course, why must we assume that every inch of it remain park when it's immediately adjacent to a lot of other park?

Because nearly all of it is within the 100-year flood plain of Minnehaha Creek, except for the area on top of the hill by the clubhouse/parking lot.

Flood plain map:
https://imgur.com/9fpKSnF

[MNdible]

And to really show them, we'll build some apartment buildings on the land that was too swampy to be a golf course.

[VAStationDude]

http://startribune.com/local/minneapoli ... ?section=/

Not only has the Park Board been pumping ground water into Lake Hiawatha, but their pumping permit was was for watering the course not keeping the fairways dry.